Rrp pipe. Adjustable stinger ?

masterblaster

masterblaster

X-H2
I thought about using another waterbox or creating a internal pipe adapter inside the rrp box. That sort of elongates the stinger though. Not sure on result there. The internal stinger on mine is bit larger than others I’ve seen and much bigger than pfp. I’m sure pipe temp comes into play here carbon only handles so much.
 
masterblaster

masterblaster

X-H2
Thanks u have a good recall on older threads here. Search doesn’t pick a lot of them up. Nothing surprising in that thread. You know of any other threads with pics of the diff stingers and waterboxs being referred to towards the end
 
masterblaster

masterblaster

X-H2
Hopefully he sees this and has something that would work. I’ll have to measure perfectly what I have I’d like to try 30mm or so
 
Big Kahuna

Big Kahuna

Administrator
Location
Tuscaloosa, AL
masterblaster said:
I thought about using another waterbox or creating a internal pipe adapter inside the rrp box. That sort of elongates the stinger though. Not sure on result there. The internal stinger on mine is bit larger than others I’ve seen and much bigger than pfp. I’m sure pipe temp comes into play here carbon only handles so much.
Click to expand...
PFP is a Dry Pipe, Yours is a Wet Design, so I dont think the ID sise is relevant here. Just a thought.
 
Blue

Blue

Judging your cheapness
Location
St Cloud Florida
Sorry guys i havent tried it myself. Tem the designer builder of Superfreaks used to build pipes but that was years ago.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk
 
masterblaster

masterblaster

X-H2
Big Kahuna said:
PFP is a Dry Pipe, Yours is a Wet Design, so I dont think the ID sise is relevant here. Just a thought.
Click to expand...
It’s relevant. But if you have to put more water in it to cool it with a smaller stinger making more heat, pressure,power Ect. It’s redundant to do so. Trying to find the fine line of stinger size carbon will handle. I tried running less water and heating it up. It didn’t make much more rpm or overall power
 
Quinc

Quinc

Buy a Superjet
Location
California
I would try the pfp box first and go from there. Can pick them up used for 100$ and resell it if you dont like it.
 
wmazz

wmazz

Location
Riverside, CA
masterblaster said:
I tried running less water and heating it up. It didn’t make much more rpm or overall power
Click to expand...
I have never worked with that pipe.

Often when you dry a pipe out there are a few negative possibilities. A common
problem is sagging acceleration. Hotter exhaust, shorter pipe, and HP at a slightly
higher rpm tends to flatten the acceleration, (front side of the ) curve. This happens
normally on sit downs, but anything that builds up a bunch of heat over time could
cause it. Water injection could help this.

Another negative that affects metal pipes when they heat up inside, they radiate
that heat to the air inside the engine compartment. I suppose that may have been
an issue with some metal water boxes too.

Pipe design contributes to over-rev too. I can extend (flatten) the peak HP curve
+2000 rpm, or I can build a pipe that make a few more HP, but the power falls off
faster than the pipe that tends to rev. Both designs have been sold for water craft. My
preference is to save the over-rev for a MX bike, and the other for propellers and
impellers. Generally most watercraft pipes are not concerned with over-rev.

I prefer small stingers on my pipes, but I run the water around the stinger, not through
it.

Do you know why they say smaller stingers heat the piston crown?

I have heard people talk about a pipe "coming to pressure," and I don't buy it. That
isn't how I have interpreted the performance of my pipes (besides a dyno).


Bill M.

Perhaps you need a different pipe for your set-up.
 
Last edited:
zeski25

zeski25

Location
Palm Beach, Fl
So my understanding is that the stinger size effects pipe pressure.
The smaller the stinger, the higher chance of piston failure. Specifically burning holes in pistons at high rpms. I've heard of racers reducing stinger size in the pipe and burning pistons up at a faster rate.
Obviously what we're doing is totally different from racing but now you know.

Master, I found the easiest way to change pressure is by waterbox. You can easily isntall a reducer off the 2.5 in RRP pipe outlet to a 2.0 in PF waterbox.
Or you could make a flange that slides into the pipe with a stopper, this can easily be made out of aluminum.

When you inject water at the manifold the sonic wave expands. This causes more pressure. Hince why the RRP wet pipe as a larger stinger.

Whatever you're trying to accomplish good luck. Like Wmazz says maybe you need a different pipe for your set up?
I've had a lot of fun testing things this year and consider myself lucky picking off the brains of TPE, Torrent, Ninja, Dasa and others.



wmazz said:
I have never worked with that pipe.

Often when you dry a pipe out there are a few negative possibilities. A common
problem is sagging acceleration. Hotter exhaust, shorter pipe, and HP at a slightly
higher rpm tends to flatten the acceleration, (front side of the ) curve. This happens
normally on sit downs, but anything that builds up a bunch of heat over time could
cause it. Water injection could help this.

Another negative that affects metal pipes when they heat up inside, they radiate
that heat to the air inside the engine compartment. I suppose that may have been
an issue with some metal water boxes too.

Pipe design contributes to over-rev too. I can extend (flatten) the peak HP curve
+2000 rpm, or I can build a pipe that make a few more HP, but the power falls off
faster than the pipe that tends to rev. Both designs have been sold for water craft. My
preference is to save the over-rev for a MX bike, and the other for propellers and
impellers. Generally most watercraft pipes are not concerned with over-rev.

I prefer small stingers on my pipes, but I run the water around the stinger, not through
it.

Do you know why they say smaller stingers heat the piston crown?

I have heard people talk about a pipe "coming to pressure," and I don't buy it. That
isn't how I have interpreted the performance of my pipes (besides a dyno).


Bill M.

Perhaps you need a different pipe for your set-up.
Click to expand...
 
JetManiac

JetManiac

Stoked
Site Supporter
Vendor Account
Location
orlando
zeski25 said:
So my understanding is that the stinger size effects pipe pressure.
The smaller the stinger, the higher chance of piston failure. Specifically burning holes in pistons at high rpms. I've heard of racers reducing stinger size in the pipe and burning pistons up at a faster rate.
Obviously what we're doing is totally different from racing but now you know.

Master, I found the easiest way to change pressure is by waterbox. You can easily isntall a reducer off the 2.5 in RRP pipe outlet to a 2.0 in PF waterbox.
Or you could make a flange that slides into the pipe with a stopper, this can easily be made out of aluminum.

When you inject water at the manifold the sonic wave expands. This causes more pressure. Hince why the RRP wet pipe as a larger stinger.

Whatever you're trying to accomplish good luck. Like Wmazz says maybe you need a different pipe for your set up?
I've had a lot of fun testing things this year and consider myself lucky picking off the brains of TPE, Torrent, Ninja, Dasa and others.
Click to expand...

Whose brain is the most tasty?
 
masterblaster

masterblaster

X-H2
TheBuzzard said:
Just put a hose clamp on the rubber hose between the stinger and the waterbox. Adjust the back pressure with the hose clamp. That will tell you wether you need more back pressure
Click to expand...
That’s a interesting idea. The coupler over the rrp is much bigger than the id of the stinger though. Hump hose connector setup also.
wmazz said:
I have never worked with that pipe.

Often when you dry a pipe out there are a few negative possibilities. A common
problem is sagging acceleration. Hotter exhaust, shorter pipe, and HP at a slightly
higher rpm tends to flatten the acceleration, (front side of the ) curve. This happens
normally on sit downs, but anything that builds up a bunch of heat over time could
cause it. Water injection could help this.

Another negative that affects metal pipes when they heat up inside, they radiate
that heat to the air inside the engine compartment. I suppose that may have been
an issue with some metal water boxes too.

Pipe design contributes to over-rev too. I can extend (flatten) the peak HP curve
+2000 rpm, or I can build a pipe that make a few more HP, but the power falls off
faster than the pipe that tends to rev. Both designs have been sold for water craft. My
preference is to save the over-rev for a MX bike, and the other for propellers and
impellers. Generally most watercraft pipes are not concerned with over-rev.

I prefer small stingers on my pipes, but I run the water around the stinger, not through
it.

Do you know why they say smaller stingers heat the piston crown?

I have heard people talk about a pipe "coming to pressure," and I don't buy it. That
isn't how I have interpreted the performance of my pipes (besides a dyno).


Bill M.

Perhaps you need a different pipe for your set-up.
Click to expand...
The rrp pipe is carbon it’s great for low end punch which I do like for one trick wonders but it comes with its own set of issues. The stinger is a bit larger than some I’ve seen so I wana try and tightened it up a bit and raise rpm hopefully extend mid range pull and move the power band of the pipe just a bit higher. Who knows if it will work at all but worth a shot. I’m sure another pipe would be better. These days I just don’t care enough to swap pipes the ski sat all summer. With work boats 4x4s and other hobbies I have limited time to tinker and ride ski. This time of year I have a bit extra time and thought I’d reprop and change stinger and see if ski gets interesting again.
zeski25 said:
So my understanding is that the stinger size effects pipe pressure.
The smaller the stinger, the higher chance of piston failure. Specifically burning holes in pistons at high rpms. I've heard of racers reducing stinger size in the pipe and burning pistons up at a faster rate.
Obviously what we're doing is totally different from racing but now you know.

Master, I found the easiest way to change pressure is by waterbox. You can easily isntall a reducer off the 2.5 in RRP pipe outlet to a 2.0 in PF waterbox.
Or you could make a flange that slides into the pipe with a stopper, this can easily be made out of aluminum.

When you inject water at the manifold the sonic wave expands. This causes more pressure. Hince why the RRP wet pipe as a larger stinger.

Whatever you're trying to accomplish good luck. Like Wmazz says maybe you need a different pipe for your set up?
I've had a lot of fun testing things this year and consider myself lucky picking off the brains of TPE, Torrent, Ninja, Dasa and others.
Click to expand...
Thanks for the tips. I was considering trying a jm wb and reducing the inlet size The rrp is really loud. I live on the river and cops have called more than once over noise. We ride small narrow switchback trials that go right up behind houses. It echoes badly in there. I wrote above what I’m trying to get outa the pipe. Having those sources above deff will help your testing results.
minuses to enjoy testing things like that also. Now I have so many other hobbies I’d rather not. Was hoping someone else had tested rrp with some sort of sim mod.
 
wmazz

wmazz

Location
Riverside, CA
zeski25 said:
So my understanding is that the stinger size effects pipe pressure.
The smaller the stinger, the higher chance of piston failure. Specifically burning holes in pistons at high rpms. I've heard of racers reducing stinger size in the pipe and burning pistons up at a faster rate.
Click to expand...
That is basically what the book from the 70's 2-stroke tuners handbook says.

Racers have also increased the stinger diameter on FPP pipes because they were
more reliable with the larger stinger. Some blamed it on "over scavenging," but
I don't buy that reason either.

Large stingers accelerate faster, but small stingers scavenge better. Both have
advantages.

When a stinger is too small, it heats the piston crown because the hot exhaust
gasses from the previous cycle can not escape the pipe before the next exhaust
cycle begins.

So the hot, inert, exhaust gas backs up inside the pipe, and eventually the cylinder.
Then the hot, inert, exhaust gas is preheating the incoming fresh fuel air mixture,
and diluting it with inert gas that can not burn twice, and leads to detonation.

Usually the engine is wot, loaded down by the pump, and starts loosing power.
That increases the load, and heat, in addition to the diluting and preheating, the
fuel air mixture, detonation is inevitable.



Bill M.
 
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