Running no foam under the tray?

[ATS_Aaron]

I just read Darren's top deck conversion thread and got to page 27 before I confirmed "No foam under tray."

http://www.x-h2o.com/threads/43935&page=27

Is he retarded?

I'm a little torn on the sinking part, but I know my old water logged foam would not have kept the ski floating anyway.

What about strength? Does the foam add strength to the sides? I guess it's not that necessary since the front 2/3rds of the ski doesn't have foam there.

What about strength under the tray? Is it necessary? Again I guess not really if I just reinforce the tray and footholds a little more. I realized yesterday that the poured in foam was not under my footholds much..so they couldn't have been getting much strength from foam backing.

So um, yeah, I am slowly talking myself into running no foam under the tray. Am I retarded? Or just lazy?

Aaron

 

[SuperJETT]

Reinforce the footholds, foam the gunwales and glass them in so that foam will never get wet but the sides will be strengthened, reinforce the front of the tray (I wrapped all the way around with 12" wide 17oz biax), make sure the tray is glued to the pump tunnel for support in the rear, add extra floatation up in the nose to help the ski float.

And don't blame me if it sinks, I haven't tested that theory yet.

 

[Shadow7874]

I just read Darren's top deck conversion thread and got to page 27 before I confirmed "No foam under tray."

http://www.x-h2o.com/threads/43935&page=27

Is he retarded?

I'm a little torn on the sinking part, but I know my old water logged foam would not have kept the ski floating anyway.

What about strength? Does the foam add strength to the sides? I guess it's not that necessary since the front 2/3rds of the ski doesn't have foam there.

What about strength under the tray? Is it necessary? Again I guess not really if I just reinforce the tray and footholds a little more. I realized yesterday that the poured in foam was not under my footholds much..so they couldn't have been getting much strength from foam backing.

So um, yeah, I am slowly talking myself into running no foam under the tray. Am I retarded? Or just lazy?

Aaron

might wanna get another bilge pump. Sure you can shave a little weight, but if you take on water or cant start the ski, good luck. And yes, it will add some strength, but probably not a whole lot. Then again by the time you reinforce the weight saving will be gone and the only advantage you will have is you can pull out a plug to drain as opposed to refoaming

 

[SuperJETT]

might wanna get another bilge pump. Sure you can shave a little weight, but if you take on water or cant start the ski, good luck. And yes, it will add some strength, but probably not a whole lot. Then again by the time you reinforce the weight saving will be gone and the only advantage you will have is you can pull out a plug to drain as opposed to refoaming

Not having to refoam, ever, is a HUGE advantage. I've done it before, it's not fun and doesn't mean your ski won't get water in it again either. My way, any water leaks just go out the scuppers plus I can find/fix the leaks.

 

[3wheelerdude]

After reading all the wetfoam threads I decided to close my squarenose with absolutely nothing but air in there. I installed 2 drain plugs (one on each side) and then glassed the footholds.

After a few rides I noticed that there is water coming out of the drain plugs each and every time I ride for more than 30 minutes. So that tells me that if I had poured new foam it would already be getting wet.

 

[ATS_Aaron]

If I seal it up the best and can, glass it over empty, with no foam then it should be reasonably air tight. That would help it float if the bilge/engine failed/hood came off. It would NOT help if I suffered hull damage though.

I think the air-tight (wishful) empty hull is the best idea, after all if it cracks cutting the tray back out is the easy part.

Aaron

Aaron

 

[yamanube]

I think no foam and a totally sealed tray/gunwale area is a better idea, IMO if Jett's ski fills with water it IS going down. I think a polystyrene(sp) filled tray area is the best idea.

 

[Skull NX Bones]

Jett's ski has foam in the upper portion of the gunwale. It's the bottom portion under the tray that has no foam. the question is, is it enough to keep the ski from sinking if it takes on water.

 

[Matt_E]

Polystyrene and drain plugs here.

 

[yamanube]

Jett's ski has foam in the upper portion of the gunwale. It's the bottom portion under the tray that has no foam. the question is, is it enough to keep the ski from sinking if it takes on water.

I would bet it isn't. Can we add that to the X-H20 casino? I've got $1,620,000 on "no".

 

[SuperJETT]

I would bet it isn't. Can we add that to the X-H20 casino? I've got $1,620,000 on "no".

With a water noodle up in the front, plus I foamed some of the nose, plus the fact that my ski is 50lbs lighter than stock, I'd say it's going to be close. I'm considering sticking a noodle behind the bulkhead too.

I'm not saying it won't sink, I am taking precautions to prevent it, so don't read too much into what I've done. I'm very concerned, but I also have not sunk a ski since 2001 and that was from a hood liner failure.

 

[yamanube]

I thought a lot about doing the same setup as yours on the topdeck conversion I am working on I just cannot bring myself to trust it to not sink and do not want to lose a ski. I have completely sunk my ski and with nose foam, stock pole foam and stock hull foam in a 2006 hull it barely floated, I would be curious to see what happens.
If it where my ski I would pull the motor and tank, fill the hull with equal weight in freeweights and test it out, if it sinks put a couple pieces of poly under the tray and glue or glass them in. If it floats, laugh at the people who said it wouldn't.
Then again that is a lot of work and I probably wouldn't do much more than type about it.

 

[ATS_Aaron]

On July 4th we went to a friend's place with a boat dock. There was no beach. I tied my ski up hoping it would not take on water.....10 minutes alter it was gone. The old scupper leaked. The water logged foam did not save me. I think a semi air tight under tray area would float for just as long.

I bought some threaded inserts, SS 1/4 pan head bolts and some sealing washers to make into small drains. Because of the scupper design I have to add two on the left side.

Aaron

 

[ATS_Aaron]

I put it back together with no foam. Hoang returfed it for me. It looks great. I tried it out today for about 1 hour and 15 minutes. The weight difference is AMAZING. Previously it floated with most of the tray underwater. Now the tray is up out of the water. The right side still floats a littler lower (exhaust tube weight I guess?). On the left side the water is about level with the VIN plate!

It feels AWESOME!!

The different ignition curve on the T3, working water injection on the R&D pipe, and the TBM flywheel all added so much power. Previously I was pulling about 6300rpm off a GOOD setup wake. Today I was hitting 6900 rpm off of smaller wind wakes. This ski FLIES. I only saw one or two boat wakes, but I almost jumped wake - to - wake on one of them. This was carrying almost no speed because of the choppy conditions too.

Oh yeah, so no foam under the tray. I added two drains on the left side (had to add two because of the weird scupper design) a normal ski would have just one. On the right side I remove the lower exhaust flange screw to let it drain out of that. I drained a total of 20 ounces of water after we returned. Not too bad considered before I defoamed it had GALLONS in there. Considering I usually ride 2 hours at a time max that is an acceptable amount. If I happen to be out for a long day I'll pull it up on a beach stand and drain it after a few hours.

Aaron

Thank God it all came together this well. It's been such an awful week I am glad to see it finally pay off.

 

[freestylegeek]

...I bought some threaded inserts, SS 1/4 pan head bolts and some sealing washers to make into small drains. Because of the scupper design I have to add two on the left side.

Aaron

Can you tell us where you got those? I would like to try something small like that under the scupper.

 

[Freakrider]

Polystyrene and drain plugs here.

 

[Etheraldreamer]

The right side still floats a littler lower (exhaust tube weight I guess?).

nope, the battery

 

[ATS_Scott]

Can you tell us where you got those? I would like to try something small like that under the scupper.

Home Depot.
After riding Aaron's ski before and after the de-foam, it made a huge difference. You can really feel the weight loss. The addition of water injection to the ski was an eye-opener too.

 

[ATS_Aaron]

Can you tell us where you got those? I would like to try something small like that under the scupper.

http://www.mcmaster.com/#catalog/115/3237/=3eputo

"hex drive with flange" I got 1/4-20 thread size. Then I grabbed some stainless 1/4-20 button head screws and some neoprene sealing washers.

I drilled a 5/16 (or 11/32?) hole and then threaded the insert in. Coat the insert with 3M 5200 sealant.

I may take my 16" long 5/16 drill bit to the back of Christin's ski and see how much water I can get out without defoaming.

Aaron

 

[Waternut]

I didn't run foamless when I did my flatdeck build but I only put in polystyrene. I had a leak that caused tons of water to get in under the tray. The ski didn't sink but it was rediculously heavy. I then put in one way valves under the tray so while riding, the ski would remain almost completely without water. It's still working good so far.