Some of them Krash hulls in the surf I reckon

[wydopen]

My point is the current "pros" level of waveriding isn't anywhere near where it was 20years ago except for a few guys who for the most part were around back then..mix Watkins waveriding with today's airs and u would have a pretty cool sport..unfortunately it's going the way of fmx where the guys can barley negotiate the berm leading up to the ramp

 

[Matt_E]

I think a lot of that is driven by what the (admittedly rare) spectator and photographers want to see. It's a lot "cooler" to feature someone backflipping 20ft in the air with a hand off the bars in your product catalog than that same person doing a bottom turn.

 

[SuziQ]

I have to agree with Wydopen...

Different directions or not. No one can ride like this...

Except for the lunch break @ 3:00; it always totally grosses me out, disgusting!

 

[wydopen]

That looks fine on an edited video but if u want it to fo mainstream like so many do u can't have everyone idling around in between waves kicking their feet into the footholds over and over..I remember when I first started riding I went to surf slam at pismo and couldn't believe how boring it was to watch with the exception of Taylor jk and a few other guys like mike serlin who actually made the most out of every wave that came through and had good style..send an unedited clip of a contest to the x games and watch them fall asleep..sure the 20seconds out of the 15min heat when they are upside down is fun to watch but the rest is a bore because nobody knows how to keep a flow going and hit every different type of wave section..

Back in the day there were plenty of ads with guys waveriding ever see the riva ad of jk doing a pancake flat reentry? The reason u don't see it anymore is because nobody makes it look good

 

[Frosty]

haven't seen that video in ages... reminds of the old surf movie 'Endless Summer'. sweet!!

I have to agree with Wydopen...

Different directions or not. No one can ride like this...

 

[special fx]

Luv the old school Watkins vid! I think riding with a small sketchy hull and virtually no power made you ride smooth and maintain momentum. I remember riding my 440 superstock and doing just about everything I can do today with sooo much less power.

 

[ridethelip]

Ok, I see where you're coming from.
Give them credit though - a lot of innovation has been coming into the area of aerials. Waveriding, not so much. But is there really anything left to "innovate" in waveriding? I understand it takes a lot of skill to do it and make it look good.
But can it really be improved over what's been done for the past 20 years already? Maybe that's where some of the stagnation is coming from.

I would say the possibilities are up to the riders and there imagination.It's pretty much wide open.You got to hand it to the current riders and there ability to give the judges what they are looking for.It's about aerial variations and amplitude.On the other hand there are competitors that are surf riding better then there opponent and not getting the score.The judges need to become educated and the riders need to win by doing both 50% aerial and 50% surf riding or finding there oppenents weak area and attacking that .There is an imbalance there.It would really help to hold some of these competitions in some good surf.

 

[Matt_E]

The scoring is supposed to be 45% waveriding, 45% aerials, and 10% style.
But I agree that scoring seems to be slanted towards aerials. Just my personal experience and opinion.

 

[Krash]

Im not going to pay you out im not like that i enjoyed your clip your a good surf rider, what annoys me is you start shooting your mouth off when you have no idea what im about and what my companys about. I come from a surfing backround ive surfed my whole life my father grew up in the surf and bought me up in the surf. This hull isnt an aerial based hull anyone can through down big flips and rolls on any hull sure the JB1 is lighter (44kg surf glass) making it a bit easier to monover and resin infused to cope with the punishment you through at it. But i primerly disigned this hull for surf riding i worked closley with my surfboard shaper when making this it has a 7'2 gun rocker curver for those who surf will know what that is for the nose and along the bottom because i needed something that worked well with speed and flattened through the back for the pump and 6'8 curve around the sides for monoverablity i even run specifically designed fins in calculated areas of the rails which not only work on my hull but Sjs Q8s rickters and trust me they work. answer this wydopen if your surf board or kite board had straight sides and a flat bottom like your sj how well would it handle?? i think we all know that water likes to curve around objects ie boats, kyaks, surfboards the list goes on.

Besides the hull which you are wrong about, this year with the help of butch and the Rip N Ride our premier surf competition Krash Industries ran the Amatuer Australian titles over 3 rounds to try and grow the competition side of things from the ground up first prize being a brand new hull and guess what the judging criteria consisted of 50% surf riding 50% aerial monovers because i to push for lots of surfriding to be done during the competition and each round had 70-80 rip n riders and 20- 30 amatuers in its first year and all of these guys gave it there all and impressed everyone with there display of surfriding and aerial abilities so were not that backward downunder.

Sure i might not be the most fluent rider ive never claimed to be hence why i called my company Krash Industries but one thing you will never see me do is jump on a forum and pay someone out for having a go, id rather see a guy land on his head 10 times or bomb out wave after wave having a crack hell i encourage those guys and there the ones i want riding my hulls cause there not scared and thats where progression comes from. I loved that guy in the last clip on the 550 he rips now I relise those clips dont do the JB1 hull much justice and i can make all the excuses i was running an 1100 in a 25kg hull with the engine setback, and it was a 50knot bay where theres no surf but im not going to. So im going to make an official clip over the next couple of weeks and i was joking when i said it was for you because it probably wont impress you anyway but mainly so everyone can see what my hulls all about and not just me riding it but riders of all abilities and experience levels and hopefully get a couple over there next year.

Whos knows wydopen you might even want one haha

Ive also attached below our judging sheet designed by Lazer man appart from needing a science degree to fill it out it works extremely well

 

[ocdfreeride]

very nice write up, thanks Nick for taking the time out to shut up wydopen p.s. to try to shut him up lol

 

[227]

Andrew is a good guy, yes he's probably the most opinionated guy on the planet but thats just how he rolls. His set up works for him and he's a pretty damn good rider. As for your ski, I'm no fan of the little short hulls either, but I do have an open mind, I'd jump at the chance to try a CRASH hull if one ever makes it over here to the States. I'm looking forward to trying a Super freak this up coming week.

 

[wydopen]

Wasn't "paying you out" like you say..someone posted a clip and multiple people were claiming you were landing 360 reentries and remarked how well the ski looked like it handled..I stated my opinion..looks like it turns flat and when u land a flip it falls over backwards it's so short, none of the 360s were landed back into the wave making them not reentries..sorry if u don't like hearing it but that's the truth..I specifically stated that I wasn't saying u were a bad rider..I've been watching your Vids and looking at your pics sense u started riding..then your buddies and u posted trying to defend your riding and told me I don't know what I'm talking about..to tell u the truth I'm always dissapointed when I see vids from your comps because of the lack of waveriding..I would figure there would be allot of good wave riding coming from down under..if u guys combined that with the huge jumps you guys do it would be good stuff
Seems like all the hulls are now made for the lowest common denominator. Making them wider and more stable when they should be narrower if you are going for high performance..give me a superjet that's 3"'narrower..then u could really put it on a rail. It's hard enough to transfer from rail to rail when doing a bottom turn I don't see how making the ski wider is going to help that..what board can u get on rail easier..a 20" wide fish or your 18.25" performance thrusters?

Idk about your theory on hull shape..the 08+ superjets had a narrower tail giving it more curve on the rail and that was a big step backwards for surfriding as it made the ski too sticky..when the wave is hollow you need the tail to break free oryour going to be sampling the sand everytime..my custom kite surfboard has fairly strait rails as i wanted them like that because it handles better at speed which is as fast or faster than jetski speeds..surfing you are going relatively slow compared to Kiting or jetsking so I don't think the same principles apply.. as far as rocker goes idk if u have been paying attention but over the last 10years board design has been going twards less entry rocker..remember slaters flip tips from the early 90s? You don't see too many of those anymore..you want as little rocker as possible for speed but just enough to not pearl on steep sections..I can't remember the last time I pearled and when I ride my #1 priority is putting my ski and turning in the most hollow part of the wave..all that exaggerated rocker is doing is pushing water when off throttle..if you run your pole the proper length you have enough leverage to keep the nose up and the pump loaded so u can power out of steep sections..

Obviously one video segment dosnt show the skis full potential. The one i posted I was running on one cyl and he recorded for literally 10 minutes..if i was making a real vid only one or two shots would have even made it in..I'm sure those vidswernt your a grade clips..but if u don't want people forming opinions from them u should tell your buddies not to post them..

As far as my opinions on the fmx like direction the "sport" is being pushed in I stand by that..if u guys think im the only person that thinks that you are wrong..I'm just the only one that will actually say anything in public...everyone else just says it under their breath..idk what's wrong with expecting "pro"'riders to have mastered operating their watercraft like pros in the past..everybody and their moms can backflip..is it really that much cooler to take a hand and a foot off? It has nothing to do with how I ride..I wouldn't expect people without a surfing background to be able to surf on their ski but there are allot of other things that can be done on a ski that arnt..

Im not going to pay you out im not like that i enjoyed your clip your a good surf rider, what annoys me is you start shooting your mouth off when you have no idea what im about and what my companys about. I come from a surfing backround ive surfed my whole life my father grew up in the surf and bought me up in the surf. This hull isnt an aerial based hull anyone can through down big flips and rolls on any hull sure the JB1 is lighter (44kg surf glass) making it a bit easier to monover and resin infused to cope with the punishment you through at it. But i primerly disigned this hull for surf riding i worked closley with my surfboard shaper when making this it has a 7'2 gun rocker curver for those who surf will know what that is for the nose and along the bottom because i needed something that worked well with speed and flattened through the back for the pump and 6'8 curve around the sides for monoverablity i even run specifically designed fins in calculated areas of the rails which not only work on my hull but Sjs Q8s rickters and trust me they work. answer this wydopen if your surf board or kite board had straight sides and a flat bottom like your sj how well would it handle?? i think we all know that water likes to curve around objects ie boats, kyaks, surfboards the list goes on.

Besides the hull which you are wrong about, this year with the help of butch and the Rip N Ride our premier surf competition Krash Industries ran the Amatuer Australian titles over 3 rounds to try and grow the competition side of things from the ground up first prize being a brand new hull and guess what the judging criteria consisted of 50% surf riding 50% aerial monovers because i to push for lots of surfriding to be done during the competition and each round had 70-80 rip n riders and 20- 30 amatuers in its first year and all of these guys gave it there all and impressed everyone with there display of surfriding and aerial abilities so were not that backward downunder.

Sure i might not be the most fluent rider ive never claimed to be hence why i called my company Krash Industries but one thing you will never see me do is jump on a forum and pay someone out for having a go, id rather see a guy land on his head 10 times or bomb out wave after wave having a crack hell i encourage those guys and there the ones i want riding my hulls cause there not scared and thats where progression comes from. I loved that guy in the last clip on the 550 he rips now I relise those clips dont do the JB1 hull much justice and i can make all the excuses i was running an 1100 in a 25kg hull with the engine setback, and it was a 50knot bay where theres no surf but im not going to. So im going to make an official clip over the next couple of weeks and i was joking when i said it was for you because it probably wont impress you anyway but mainly so everyone can see what my hulls all about and not just me riding it but riders of all abilities and experience levels and hopefully get a couple over there next year.

Whos knows wydopen you might even want one haha

Ive also attached below our judging sheet designed by Lazer man appart from needing a science degree to fill it out it works extremely well

 

[kcmasterpiece]

I wasnt going to say anything because this thread seems pretty heated right now, but ive decided to just say what i have to say anyway. Im not taking sides, im just going to state how i see it.

After reading this entire thread, it made me remember about a similar conversation i had with a buddy of mine about 2 weeks ago. Both of us agreed the sport seems to have too much aerial stunts and not growing in the direction WE want it to. this made me think. This is a "spectator sport" and what affects the growth of a "spectator sport" relies on how the spectator sees it

So, this made me think of the sport in the perspective of the people on shore viewing it. I live in Daytona Beach. we get to ride the surf and launch off the beach. the beaches we ride are normal local beaches which are filled with people who are there just to be on the beach. these people most definitely have heard of a jet ski and probably have seen one, but that is the most they can say about it. Im not the best rider out there by far and i cant do the inverted stuff the pros do (yet), but i can get out there and ride the waves and do some basic aerial tricks (no hands, nose stabs, point backs, ect.) im also working on "waveriding" and im starting to get the feel of it. i can slash and make somewhat smooth s turns and what not and i really enjoy that style of riding. However, when i come back on shore, the people who come up to me in amazement of what we do out there, all they mention are the aerial tricks.

If you think about this sport in the perspective of the regular joe, who has never ridden a stand up, has never surfed, has never seen a jet ski riding in the surf it, it makes it pretty clear why the aerial tricks are the most popular. To the average Joe, when they see someone riding a jet ski in the surf, their imagination exaggerates every aspect. When they see someone waveriding, they see a guy on a get ski going up to a wave and making simple s-turns and just messing around. they think to themselves, "eh, hes not really doing anything" and soon get bored. when the regular joe sees someone pull a simple backflip with one hand off the bar, their imagination sees a guy doing a double backflip 20 feet in the air with no hands or feet. that is what they will remember and thats what theyre going to tell their buddies when they get home. yes, it is frustrating. and yes, i wish people would recognize me doing the kind of riding that takes a lot of time and skill to learn, but as much as we want that, it wont happen because people just dont understand...

I want to remind you, im all for waveriding. i know what it takes to ride a standup in the surf and i know how difficult it is to ride the waves, but when it comes down to it, aerial tricks are more exciting for the average spectator. after all, those are the people who spread the word about our sport. like MattE said earlier. the sport is going to go in the direction it wants. we dont have control over it. why? because its a spectator sport and the its goes in the direction the spectator finds the most exciting.

i leave you with a thought. i know were talking about riding surf, but this will let you see where im coming from.

which one of these videos do you think a person will find more impressive if they saw it live? which on of these videos do you think someone will remember and go home to tell their buddies or family? remember to watch these videos through the eyes of a spectator who hasnt seen something like this before. if you have to ask why, just remember how we get this sport to grow. not by impressing the people who already know everything about this sport, but the people who never knew it existed.

I know which one i find more impressive, but do you think that really matters? who are we trying to impress here? when someone i know shows an interest in this sport, i show them videos of todays riding because i know that will blow their mind more than watching an old school video which i know they will most likely find a bit boring.

I sure hope you dont take this the wrong way. im just trying to make you think in a different perspective.

ps: take it easy on me...lol its just an opinion.

 

[JamesG]

^Agreed. When I tell somebody I ride a stand up, the first thing they ask is "can you backflip?!".

 

[wydopen]

i totally agree with you...the average american wants to see big jumps and crashes...BUT my whole point is that in between the big jumps instead of idling around in circles it would be allot more interesting for the people that actually know what they were looking at if the riders made the most out of the conditions..weather it be waveriding or riding fast and finding big rythym sections to jump or whatever..at least show some ski handling skills

what seperates the "pros" from the regular guy?...so many people are flipping these days..does being able to flip make u pro??..i dont think so as ive seen some very unskilled riders flipping..does being able to do one hander one footer backflips the difference???...

in other sports like moto or surfing for example the pros are on such a higher level that an average guy cant even comprehend doing what they are doing...ever go to a supercross race??..im a fairly decent rider but i couldnt even ride around the track at an ama supercross...

paddle into 50ft waves??..no way

back in the day the pro racers/freeriders had their skis so dialed in they made their 550s look better than our nice skis now...

watch the video posted in the other thread of that france contest....what are those guys doing different than what u see at your local beach from just some regular guys?? taking an extra foot off??

at least back in the day those guys knew how to make riding look good...i bet you could put scott watkins in a mud puddle on clapped out 440 and he would make it look fun.. now you have "pros" on 20k$ skis and they fall over when they are riding strait...

have some pride..dont you people want to use your skis to their full potential??..they do turn ya know...try dropping your shoulder on the water next time you turn...its actually allot of fun

I wasnt going to say anything because this thread seems pretty heated right now, but ive decided to just say what i have to say anyway. Im not taking sides, im just going to state how i see it.

After reading this entire thread, it made me remember about a similar conversation i had with a buddy of mine about 2 weeks ago. Both of us agreed the sport seems to have too much aerial stunts and not growing in the direction WE want it to. this made me think. This is a "spectator sport" and what affects the growth of a "spectator sport" relies on how the spectator sees it

So, this made me think of the sport in the perspective of the people on shore viewing it. I live in Daytona Beach. we get to ride the surf and launch off the beach. the beaches we ride are normal local beaches which are filled with people who are there just to be on the beach. these people most definitely have heard of a jet ski and probably have seen one, but that is the most they can say about it. Im not the best rider out there by far and i cant do the inverted stuff the pros do (yet), but i can get out there and ride the waves and do some basic aerial tricks (no hands, nose stabs, point backs, ect.) im also working on "waveriding" and im starting to get the feel of it. i can slash and make somewhat smooth s turns and what not and i really enjoy that style of riding. However, when i come back on shore, the people who come up to me in amazement of what we do out there, all they mention are the aerial tricks.

If you think about this sport in the perspective of the regular joe, who has never ridden a stand up, has never surfed, has never seen a jet ski riding in the surf it, it makes it pretty clear why the aerial tricks are the most popular. To the average Joe, when they see someone riding a jet ski in the surf, their imagination exaggerates every aspect. When they see someone waveriding, they see a guy on a get ski going up to a wave and making simple s-turns and just messing around. they think to themselves, "eh, hes not really doing anything" and soon get bored. when the regular joe sees someone pull a simple backflip with one hand off the bar, their imagination sees a guy doing a double backflip 20 feet in the air with no hands or feet. that is what they will remember and thats what theyre going to tell their buddies when they get home. yes, it is frustrating. and yes, i wish people would recognize me doing the kind of riding that takes a lot of time and skill to learn, but as much as we want that, it wont happen because people just dont understand...

I want to remind you, im all for waveriding. i know what it takes to ride a standup in the surf and i know how difficult it is to ride the waves, but when it comes down to it, aerial tricks are more exciting for the average spectator. after all, those are the people who spread the word about our sport. like MattE said earlier. the sport is going to go in the direction it wants. we dont have control over it. why? because its a spectator sport and the its goes in the direction the spectator finds the most exciting.

i leave you with a thought. i know were talking about riding surf, but this will let you see where im coming from.

which one of these videos do you think a person will find more impressive if they saw it live? which on of these videos do you think someone will remember and go home to tell their buddies or family? remember to watch these videos through the eyes of a spectator who hasnt seen something like this before. if you have to ask why, just remember how we get this sport to grow. not by impressing the people who already know everything about this sport, but the people who never knew it existed.

I know which one i find more impressive, but do you think that really matters? who are we trying to impress here? when someone i know shows an interest in this sport, i show them videos of todays riding because i know that will blow their mind more than watching an old school video which i know they will most likely find a bit boring.

I sure hope you dont take this the wrong way. im just trying to make you think in a different perspective.

ps: take it easy on me...lol its just an opinion.

 

[Matt_E]

Heh, you got very good points.
IMO, the absolutely best routines to watch are those where the rider makes everything flow together. No slowing down, no head on a swivel looking for big faces - just fluid riding around, surfing, and throwing in big aerials when appropriate and when conditions are right for it - as if it's part of the planned routine all along. Those are great to watch and pretty rare.

 

[Charlie_Hustle]

Randy Laine, Oside Curtis, Fuzzy, Taylor Curtis, Andrew and a few others. I could watch those dudes ride surf all day...

 

[kcmasterpiece]

dont get me wrong. i was looking at things in a different perspective. i started out on a 440, then 550, now an fx1. i have much respect for guys like Scott, the ripper, ect.

also, the point made about anyone being able to do a backflip is exactly why we have this issue. people realized they can do them, and theyre not that difficult to do (so ive heard) and they like to be able to say they can do them and it makes them feel good. so why would someone like this waste time riding waves when they know they wont get as much attention from the people theyre showing off for. plus, its a lot harder and you know how lazy people are. no one wants to work for anything anymore. were all looking for the easy way out love to spend money to make things easy. you cant buy the skill to ride waves, but you can by a boat that makes a backflip easier than turning.

as for the pro comps. i totally agree, during competitions to keep the flow going in between tricks. it makes for a much better show for the crowd and shows you can ride a ski for the judges. But im just saying, the point i was trying to make is only in the eyes of someone who doesnt know much about surf riding. they dont understand. and this is why i think waveriding has died down. its sad, but its life.

 

[number5isalive]

Its the extended chines that make an 08 superjet stick to the water not the width of the rear end dumbazz,
The fact is Nick barton could smoke you in the surf riding department as well it just doesnt get on the videos as most people only show the flips and rolls etc

 

[jetski700]

Its the extended chines that make an 08 superjet stick to the water not the width of the rear end dumbazz,
The fact is Nick barton could smoke you in the surf riding department as well it just doesnt get on the videos as most people only show the flips and rolls etc

Man love ????