Other Stand Up Ski's Supply & Demand

I have noticed the last couple years stand up ski's are bringing a lot of newer people to the sport as well as people who used to ride them in the past. It seems at least in Arizona the supply & demand is more on the demand side these days and I am seeing much higher prices on ski's and they don't seem to last long. Are you guys seeing the same thing around other parts of the country?
 

SkiDiggity

formerly kawirider142
they don't sell stand ups from dealers here cause it's illegal... stupid 2 stroke laws. As for individuals i have noticed superjets have become more expensive and 550's have decreased. My buddy got a full raced out 550 for 700 bucks.
 
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BrightE's

Paul
Location
Seattle, WA
The hoarding market may also have something to do with that. Every area has the hoarding sellers who buy up all the local good deals, hoard, and raise the prices significantly as a middle man. I suppose they are only driven by the high demand, but it sure doesn't help beginners who sometimes need good deals and lesser priced ski's to get interested in the sport.
 
I have seen a higher demand for superjets lately thats for sure. Really a $1500-2000 SN is not that much money to get into a sport and have a decent starter ski. I couldnt believe how much fun the $900(plus maybe $300 in parts to fix it) I paid for my SN last spring brought me last summer. Its not so much the price, its actually finding a ski thats the problem, seems to be slim pickings in some areas.

To me with stand ups, you dont have to have a $10,000 new SJ, or a $20,000 am hull with a built engine to have a good time and go ride with other people, even some of the pros. Nobody is gonna laugh at you if your ripping it on a stockish SN, and there are people who can really ride rocking a SN or even a 550 for that matter.
 

ProSouth

Seriously, Don't be a dick.
Location
kawasakis suck
Everybody around here says "man that's badass! What would it cost to build a freestyle ski?!" Then I say, " if you do all your own work $12k" then they say " it's not that cool" lol
 
Everybody around here says "man that's badass! What would it cost to build a freestyle ski?!" Then I say, " if you do all your own work $12k" then they say " it's not that cool" lol
It's funny how many people say this but then you watch them hop into that lifted 1 ton diesel that's only driven in the city. Or look at the toy they are hauling. its worth way way more than my ski. Lol
 
Yup same thing here in Canada more people want them, prices are going up, but people are buying them.
Everyone wants a stand up but there's barely any to be found!
 
I used to buy Stock Squares here for around 700-900.....now selling for 1200-1500...moded squares $ 1800-2500 , the Blaster 1 used to be around & 800-1200, now selling for around $ 1700-2300 , 440 and 550's use dot be $ 200-400 now $ 900-1300 and so on and so forth.....eventually it all will get cheaper again..its just a matter of time
 

jahimmelspach

Having A Blast
Location
SE Michigan
The stand up jet ski market is so small the prices can be controlled/influenced rather easily by a few key people in their respected areas. I've only been in the sport about 5 Years, but it doesn't take a financial analyst to see how it works.
 
I agree, in Florida prices seem to have gone up a lot. I wanted to get an SXR to compliment my Superjet but knowing that today an ~06 standup is going for what it did 3 years ago or more I'll keep waiting. I can't imagine economy is any better.
 

sjetrider

615 Freeriders are addicted to T1 madness.
I think the costs were driven up by the fact that the 90's skis (when things were at there prime for standups) are now thinned out, alot of them are broke down to the point of people throwing them out or stripping them down. There was a time when there were an azz load of old 90's race skis on the market, they are gone, stripped down and parted out now. All thats left are barn finds and there are alot less of them so the prices are higher everywhere.
Standups took a dive in new sales in 2002 and never really came back strong.
 

Vumad

Super Hero, with a cape!
Location
St. Pete, FL
It is the economy. People can say that the economy is not recovering but it is. The used market really shows the economy. 5 years, skis were dirt cheap and still not selling. Lots of people lost their jobs and needed cash fast, they couldn't sit on a ski forever waiting on top dollar. They were giving them away. People needed money but no one had any to spend. The prices have since skyrocketed because people no longer have a need to sell and there are plenty of people wanting to buy.

I bought my 2004 superjet in 2010 for $2800 and had cash offers of $3400 in 2012 I rejected (was looking to trade for a SXR).
I bought my 2007 silverado in 2010, and at the time, there were like 5 el caminos (I was considering one) with running 305 or 350 in them for $1500, now parts cars are listed for $1500 and running cars are $2500-3000. I know that asking prices are not the same as selling prices, but the asking price is a reflection of the need to make the sale.

The SXR has seen a dramatic increase in price because the new market and the used market are competing. Those with money to buy a new ski can not, so they have to buy a newer used ski, and are willing to pay new prices for them, which drives up the prices of everything that is used.

It's simple... People needed money 5 years ago, and were giving away the non-necessities. Now, people have disposable income again, and it's a sellers market.

You are also seeing a lot of skis on the market that are not really for sale. Example... I'll sell you my superjet right now for $5500, but it's probably only worth $4000 or $4500. However, if it is worth more to you than it is to me, than I am willing to sell. I think that is part of the reason you see 2005 all stock SXRs for $6000. You can't buy new, there are a few for sale, and a lot of people are still riding them and don't care if they sell, but hey, if you're willing to pay that kind of money... You know the saying, "Make me an offer I can't refuse".
 
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Half flip95

Formerly pondracer95
It is the economy. People can say that the economy is not recovering but it is.
.

You got it backwards buddy. people keep saying there is a recovery but there is not. in the news, the president, they say they recovery this, the recovery, recovery that... eventually people get convinced that there is a recovery. there is not. we're living in the lost decade my friend. new employment matches new entrants into the workforce, this is not growth. the markets have reached equilibrium at a level beneath full employment. A lot of economists are calling this "the new normal". I sure hope its not. if you look at total output, we have just barely reached the total output level of 2007. A recovery would imply that we are back on to where we should have been had the recession not occured.
 

Vumad

Super Hero, with a cape!
Location
St. Pete, FL
.

You got it backwards buddy. people keep saying there is a recovery but there is not. in the news, the president, they say they recovery this, the recovery, recovery that... eventually people get convinced that there is a recovery. there is not. we're living in the lost decade my friend. new employment matches new entrants into the workforce, this is not growth. the markets have reached equilibrium at a level beneath full employment. A lot of economists are calling this "the new normal". I sure hope its not. if you look at total output, we have just barely reached the total output level of 2007. A recovery would imply that we are back on to where we should have been had the recession not occured.

You see what you want to see. You want to see gloom and doom and you are looking for ways to support it. In this example, you site the news as sending a message of recovery that I have bought hook, line and sinker.

Except I don't watch the news. I don't have television, well, I have hulu, but I watch about 1 hour a week of programming.

I don't count on people to tell me about the economy. I watch it with my own eyes and ears. My example was pretty specific. What I can and can not buy. The fact of the matter is, regardless of what you want to believe, or what the news tells you, is that 5 years ago, I could low ball any one on anything, they needed money, they needed it bad, they were out of work, bills were due, times were tough. Now, people want an arm and a leg, used prices are on the rise. People aren't taking less than asking prices, and their asking prices aren't even reasonable. They will tell you, I don't need nor want to sell this, but it is available to the right buyer. Weather it was a car, jet ski, motorcycle, quad, television, the entire used market has seen a rise. Not just because the SXR is no longer in production, but because they don't need or want to sell it. They have money, so they don't care if it rots away in the garage. 5 years ago, they were begging for someone to take it, now, eh, who cares, we don't need the money so who cares.

W/e your source is, that is great, hope for your portfolio they are spot on. I'm my own source. I watch the behavior of people, average every day people and their behavior. The economy is on a rebound. The housing market is on a rebound.

Now, if you want to talk about the stability of the rebound, that's another story. Our economy is like a girl who spent the last few years crying over her boyfriend, and now she is on the rebound by slamming down the brews lying with whomever, and one morning, she's going to say oh :):):):), what the crap have I been thinking.

The rebound is real. The foundation is not. Our economic rebound is built on twigs and mud rather than something more firm. I agree with you that it is a load of crap, but loose footing does not change the fact that we are standing taller, it just means you better be tying a rope off so impending fall isn't so far.

Prices are on the rise because buyers have money to spend, and sellers have no need to sell. There is no better example of an improving economy than that.
 
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Half flip95

Formerly pondracer95
My main sources are Krugman & Minsky (and all the PhDs around here who all have something to add to it!)

I dont choose to see doom or gloom. Where I live, in Palm Springs California, the local economy is out of control. the concentration of wealth and overall level of opportunity in this area is very high. I see Ferraris and Bentleys on a daily basis. What I also see everyday is macro economic data. I'm talking business cycle theory. the media and the president are blatantly lying about our current situation.

Excess Reserves
http://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/series/EXCRESNS
"normal" recessions are managed through monetary policy. well the banks don't want to play that game anymore. (as seen in the graph) so the only tool we have left to "fix" the market is Keynesian policies. but we have all the right wing elites demanding austerity then we have all the everyday blue collar conservatives that are aligned with the right wing elites purely out of coalition screaming for austerity because thats what their party seems to endorse, even though it makes no sense in the current environment. not to mention the only legitimate case for austerity has been completely debunked, it turns out those guys from Harvard were full of ish. the banks want austerity. the average citizen shouldnt give a rats azz about austerity at this point. Its called crony capitalism. think about the bank bailouts. who got bailed out? all the big banks that are runnin the ish got paid. all the little banks that didnt have any ties to the ish fell by the wayside.

I completely agree with what you say about 5 years ago when people cut the non necessities an readjusted their budgets and lifestyles. the market adjusted to an equilibrium level below full employment - ie below maximum output. during those 5 years we have had a huge amount of capital accumulation. people that were hurting sold their ish to people that had been more frugal. prices are higher now in the used jet ski market in large part because you are dealing with those people who have been frugal and are not desperate to sell. you still can low ball anyone on anything, but the people who take the lowballs dont have anything left to sell. they were completely over leveraged and all their perceived wealth evaporated. I think what you're seeing is a segregation of the economy. you go out and you see people working and buying stuff and doing business as usual. what you're not seeing are the hordes of people sitting at home not doing ish, the yare basically non participants in the economy. not to mention all the idle capital just sitting there. from a macro outlook, thats what worries me, the amount of labor and machinery not being put into production - lack of real growth. yes the established people can scrape on and do business as usual, but the young people aren't getting good jobs, and those working arnt getting promotions. we are in a state of stagnation no two ways about it
 

Half flip95

Formerly pondracer95
about housing,

residential investment is a leading indicator in the pro-cyclical fashion. you say that residential investment is improving, technically you are correct, but the data shows that the improvement is pathetic relative to past recessions. maybe you will find this article interesting:

Krugman on short-run post modern business cycles
"As I said then, there’s a definite change in the character of recessions after the mid-1980s. Before then, recessions were basically brought on by the Fed, which raised interest rates sharply to curb inflation, causing a slump in housing. When the Fed decided that we had suffered enough, it let rates fall again, and there was a surge from pent-up housing demand. Morning in America!
Since then, however, inflation has been well under control, and booms have died of old age — or more precisely, they have died because of overbuilding and an excessive level of debt. The Fed is then in the position of trying to goose housing (which is the principal channel for monetary policy) even though housing may already be overbuilt (which was the point I was making, sarcastically, when I said long ago that the Fed has to create a housing bubble), and it is cutting rates from an initial level which isn’t that high. So the odds of running up against the zero lower bound are high, and recovery can be a long time in coming.
houses.png

The early-80s slump was brought on by a huge rise in the Fed funds rate, which left lots of room for cuts, and was driven by a deep slump in housing, which meant that there was lots of pent-up demand when rates fell again. The 2007-? slump was brought on by the bursting of a housing and debt bubble, and left the Fed largely pushing on a string.
And what about Reagan? Reagan who? This had nothing to do with tax cuts. Did I mention that Reagan actually raised taxes in 1982?"
 
lets get back to the main topic fellas. When I got into the sport just 2 years ago a 650sx in my area was between 600-800 bucks and there were lots of them on CL (at least when I was looking to buy my first one). Today, you'd be hard pressed to find a decent one for under 1K. I just bought a 650sx for 1000 and felt like I got a deal compared to the rest of the beat skis I saw on CL. I think the sport is seeing more popularity today for some reason, not really sure why. The demand is definitely going up and with talk of Yamaha making 2013 the last year for the superjet, supply is definitely going to go down fast. Its the reason I went out and bought myself a 2013 ski that I couldn't afford. it was my last opportunity to buy a new ski. Who knows, maybe someone someday will start manufacturing some cheap skis again to meet the needs for us broke folk. not everyone can drop the cash on a new rickter or bob.
 
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