steve-uk
Manners cost nothing
- Location
- Barrie - ontario
hey man, so whats the story did you get hooked up? ready to ride?
:thewave:
:thewave:
Custom/Hybrid Suggestions on different fuels/timing
- Thread starter junkyardj
- Start date
junkyardj
┌∩┐(◣_◢)┌∩┐
- Location
- barrie ont. canada
been slackin bro (workin on the kids playhouse) dont worry ill be RTR>ready to ride!
josh thinks i might be able to get some gas up here to get me by till chuck sends me some info
im interested to see the jetting and curve changes between the 2 fuels.. i wonder what type of psi matt is getting away with when mixing av/pump
skithis
X
- Location
- Belleville/ Coldwater, MI
Well im not sure how avgas effects high reving 2 strokes but here are a few things i do KNOW.
avgas comes in 3 forms...80 octane,100 octane, and 100 low lead. Rarely ever see any but 100LL anymore. It is blue. It is also rated on a different scale than your normal gas station gasoline.
Avgas is formulated with anti carb icing formulatives that may or may not be good burnt at the speed and timing your engine is running. Remember, aviation is all about reliability. These engines are on average redlined at 2900 rpms wide open.
Avgas will also run cooler. Airplane reciprocating engines are air cooled. Avgas is forumlated to run cooler. How this will effect combustion in a 8000 rpm 2 stroke, I'm not sure. I do know that avgas has much, much better deto characteristics than pump gas.
When I take apart an aircraft piston engine after 2000 hours time in service, the cylinder heads, exhaust, plugs, and valves are usually coked up with lead. Whether this is because these engines run colder and slower than ours, im not sure.
Anybody have any experience with lead buildup?
avgas comes in 3 forms...80 octane,100 octane, and 100 low lead. Rarely ever see any but 100LL anymore. It is blue. It is also rated on a different scale than your normal gas station gasoline.
Avgas is formulated with anti carb icing formulatives that may or may not be good burnt at the speed and timing your engine is running. Remember, aviation is all about reliability. These engines are on average redlined at 2900 rpms wide open.
Avgas will also run cooler. Airplane reciprocating engines are air cooled. Avgas is forumlated to run cooler. How this will effect combustion in a 8000 rpm 2 stroke, I'm not sure. I do know that avgas has much, much better deto characteristics than pump gas.
When I take apart an aircraft piston engine after 2000 hours time in service, the cylinder heads, exhaust, plugs, and valves are usually coked up with lead. Whether this is because these engines run colder and slower than ours, im not sure.
Anybody have any experience with lead buildup?
When I use to run av-gas in my race sx-r, they wouldn't sell to me so I told them I had an ultralight on floats I kept at my house, then they let me fill up a drum...that or go after hours hop the fence and pass 5 gallon jugs over...did that for a while too....
One day I went to another local airport and couldn't find the pumps, so walked into a small plane repair shop, dude told me he oftenly drained perfectly good gas out of planes during repairs and legally couldnt put back in the planes so he gave it all to me. Got like 55 gallons a week sometimes...ran it fine for a few seasons with no problems.
Also, in my sxr, runnin 225psi, 7degree advance, and novi worked stock carbs I ran avgas all the time except during races where I ran unleaded sunoco 100 with zero tuning changes, and it ran exactly the same. Ski ripped with all fuels I tried around 100octane, except some crap VP fuel they sold at the world finals....wont ever run VP fuels agains..
One day I went to another local airport and couldn't find the pumps, so walked into a small plane repair shop, dude told me he oftenly drained perfectly good gas out of planes during repairs and legally couldnt put back in the planes so he gave it all to me. Got like 55 gallons a week sometimes...ran it fine for a few seasons with no problems.
Also, in my sxr, runnin 225psi, 7degree advance, and novi worked stock carbs I ran avgas all the time except during races where I ran unleaded sunoco 100 with zero tuning changes, and it ran exactly the same. Ski ripped with all fuels I tried around 100octane, except some crap VP fuel they sold at the world finals....wont ever run VP fuels agains..
junkyardj
┌∩┐(◣_◢)┌∩┐
- Location
- barrie ont. canada
man really good info guys thanks alot! gives me a bit more to think about
interesting hearing no changes to jetting with the same results
thanks boys!
interesting hearing no changes to jetting with the same results
thanks boys!
steve-uk
Manners cost nothing
- Location
- Barrie - ontario
dude... did you get your info yet? im itching to ride that ski....
Lucaumpits
RIDE LIKE U'VE STOLE IT!!
- Location
- Orlando, FL
junkyardj
┌∩┐(◣_◢)┌∩┐
- Location
- barrie ont. canada
lol think this might be the easiest way by the looks of things or maybe buy a new ski hmmm i think i seen a rickter on pumpgas in the f/s section
ps post up some more vid of you killing it on that superfreak man!!
junkyardj
┌∩┐(◣_◢)┌∩┐
- Location
- barrie ont. canada
no dice on geting any info from the master, guess im from the wrong country
maybe if i was from somewhere in the middle of the world:27:
steve-uk
Manners cost nothing
- Location
- Barrie - ontario
dude that sucks, im hoping this isnt a warning on after sales service, i just dropped alot of $$ with these guys based on all the positive feedback on after sales support
- Location
- New York Crew
Chuck is the man, you be right on! I was just discussing this with Ed from Full Spec last week. two of the most knowledgible people in the two stroke world. He said same thing AV 100LL 50:50 with 93 or second choice is 50:50 with C-12 race gas, both with 32:1 oil, he likes Maxima non castor. I think M or something, I wrote it down some where. Chuck likes the Quicksilver. This is going to be a great summer with all the cool boats and motors. BRAPP
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steve-uk
Manners cost nothing
- Location
- Barrie - ontario
problem is junkyard wants to know what he has to do to go back to pure pump gas..
asked some basic questions, been promised answers and recieved nothing
asked some basic questions, been promised answers and recieved nothing
masterblaster
X-H2
Ts must be busy as all hell with the spring,or in sand land somewhere.few guys I know are having issues getting call backs with them as well
SUPERTUNE
Race Gas Rules
- Location
- Clearwater Fl.
I made a post telling him what to do...
I am very busy at the shop and over at my moms a lot since my dad passed away 6 weeks ago!
What are you needing exactly?
Did run it yet?
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junkyardj
┌∩┐(◣_◢)┌∩┐
- Location
- barrie ont. canada
here was part of the pm incase you lost it
if you want to help me out that would be great.. here is the stuff i need to know
-lenth of rods and type
-piston size
-jetting(for av and for pump)
-TL curve (for av and pump)
haven't had the ski out yet was hoping to try it out tomorrow but when i pulled the picup plate off today it looked pretty rough inside so i think ill need crank seals...
SUPERTUNE
Race Gas Rules
- Location
- Clearwater Fl.
As far as rod length I'm not sure (didn't write that down in my build notes) as the original customer supplied it, 6mm Rad crank, Don't know if it has the stock 125mm rods or rad billet 134mm rods or was rebuilt and has Kawasaki 133mm rods before Joe sent it to me ready to use. PM him and see if he remembers...NJFL
This engine is 860cc (859.7) @86mm bore with the 6mm stroker.
You should have the AV gas and pump gas domes for this engine.
If you want to run pump fuel put the pump fuel domes in.
no other changes needed, MSD timing curves for av gas and pump gas are basically the same, only race gas 112 octane and up would use a more aggressive curve.
Engines setup with MSD-TL ignitions, the jetting doesn't change a lot when you change the domes to go to the pump fuel.
This engine is 860cc (859.7) @86mm bore with the 6mm stroker.
You should have the AV gas and pump gas domes for this engine.
If you want to run pump fuel put the pump fuel domes in.
no other changes needed, MSD timing curves for av gas and pump gas are basically the same, only race gas 112 octane and up would use a more aggressive curve.
Engines setup with MSD-TL ignitions, the jetting doesn't change a lot when you change the domes to go to the pump fuel.
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junkyardj
┌∩┐(◣_◢)┌∩┐
- Location
- barrie ont. canada
so i guess that means its running pretty fatt already then?
ive had race bikes that ran like a turn when i came to florida thats why i wanted to know the jetting incase i need to go up or down a bit.. i guess TL should clean it up
thanks for the info chuck ill ask njfl about the crank
j
- Location
- Ontario, Canada
I have a friend that flies ultralight aircraft and if I remember correctly, the reason why it's so hard to find airports of any size in Canada that will sell to the public is because they only have a certain quantity. I don't remember exactly the details but from what I do remember, airports have to buy in advance X-amount of fuel supplies because AV fuel is only made in batches. In addition to this batch making/advance ordering, they only make something like 3 batches a year so the airports have to have their fuel consumption numbers figured out to book their advanced purchase. Kinda similar idea to boat dealers, they have to figure out what they will sell over the upcoming season well into the fall before because that's the only time they can place orders.
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