Super Jet Super jet no crank electrical issue

[SN.VS]

Hi guys I have a weird one for the electrical experts here haha.
I’m finishing up a 61x swap on my square nose and swapping over all the electrical. When I go to test crank the engine I get no crank. There is 12v at the orange wire for the starter solenoid when hitting the start button with wire unplugged from the solenoid. Voltage goes away when orange wire is plugged into the solenoid and hitting the start button. New solenoid and new start switch already installed. Tested grounds are good. I swapped cdi’s no change. If I jump power from battery post to orange wire the engine cranks. So I’m having a hard time finding why the voltage disappears for the solenoid when everything is plugged in.


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[Pro-pulsion]

The regulator rectifier controls power going to the starter solenoid, it could very well be toast, and there should be an inline fuse tied to a red lead going to that solenoid. You mentioned orange though, the only 61x service info I have shows the only orange lead is from the CDI to the coil. Can you post a pic of the inside of the ebox? Areas I have seen go wonky are if the fuse end caps are rusty or corroded that will act as a resistance, the fuse sometimes will pop just enough under one of the end caps to allow some signal through but not enough, or the fuse wire has been pinched and the wiring inside the red sheath has been crushed enough to sever many of the strands. That will also reduce the current flow to only what a few strands can allow according to their individual amperage capacity which on a single strand basis is very minimal. Also, do the resistance tests on the stator to at least verify the stator is proper when cold to start with, and that it hasn't burnt out or is building resistance under load from a deteriorating winding. If the stator can't produce the necessary voltage then the regulator won't produce it either.

 

[SN.VS]

@Pro-pulsion thank you for the response and helpful suggestions. I added some pics of my ebox and the readings with the orange/brown wire for the solenoid connected and disconnected and pressing green start button. The fuse is good and the voltage on both ends of the fuse is good. I still have to do the tests on the stator.

 

[Pro-pulsion]

Scratch that, I think I'm wrong on the little posts lol

Here are the stator measurements...

 

[Pro-pulsion]

Regulator/rectifier tests...

 

[Pro-pulsion]

The brown wire with the pink heat shrink connector which becomes an orange line, is that the orange that attaches to the solenoid? Either way that doesn't look like a good clean connection, it could be a poor connection in there. I would be inclined to replace that and use a brown wire to keep consistency.

 

[rhugo21]

Get rid of that MSD coil while you have the box open. They are junk. Replace with a Kawasaki OEM coil

 

[Pro-pulsion]

^^ or a JetManiac Yamasaki coil or OCD Solutions surf armoured coil. Both are great sellers with great product.

 

[SN.VS]

Get rid of that MSD coil while you have the box open. They are junk. Replace with a Kawasaki OEM coil

Ah yes I have heard these MSDs aren’t that great, now would be a good time. I’ll look into swapping it out for something better

 

[TheBuzzard]

When you installed the solenoid , are you sure you put the battery and starter cables on the correct posts? Reversed and it won't work when you hit the button. And it cranks when you short across those 2 posts with a screwdriver?

 

[SN.VS]

When you installed the solenoid , are you sure you put the battery and starter cables on the correct posts? Reversed and it won't work when you hit the button. And it cranks when you short across those 2 posts with a screwdriver?

I’ve tried swapping the starter/battery cables on the solenoid and still nothing. If I jump 12v to the orange wire the engine cranks.


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[SN.VS]

I tested the stator and it all is within proper spec. The voltage rectifier/regulator however is showing open circuit at all points of testing so I will try swapping out the voltage rectifier and see what happens.


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[WFO Speedracer]

What is sounds like is a bad positive or negative cable or cable end, think of it like a car with a corroded battery post, you turn on the ignition switch and everything lights up, that's the low amperage side, when you turn the key everything goes away, that is the high amperage side.

Start with the ground connection and the ground wire, check to make sure that is good. The quick and dirty test I use is a set of jumper cables, simply jump the connection by bypassing the stock cable with one lead of the jumper cable, connect one end of the jumper cable to the neg battery post and the other end to a ground on the engine, does it work now if so bad ground connection or bad negative ground cable, do the same with the positive side , one end to the positive battery post the other to the solenoid, if it cranks now you have a bad end on the cable or a bad positive cable. Be very careful with this test , connect the end on the solenoid first then connect the end on the battery so you are not dealing with a live wire or you could do some serious damage to electrical components if you ground out on the electrical box somewhere.

One other area of concern is the small black wire on the stator, that is the system ground for everything on the ski, if that wire is bad or damaged nothing on the low amperage side of the electrical system will work correctly, same test use the jumper cable and go from the negative battery post to the grounding screw in the electrical box, if it works now the problem is somewhere in that small ground wire, to fix that run another ground wire from the engine or the battery to the electrical box.

 

[SN.VS]

So far I have tried swapping cdi, voltage regulator, relay, stator, and adding extra grounds/ power wires. Still no crank. Although I did notice while I was swapping things over and testing for crank there was a successful intermittent crank. So I believe @WFO Speedracer is onto something. At this point I have narrowed it down to corrosion somewhere within the wires/ connections of the ebox. Thank you all for the advice!


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[OCD Solutions]

The starter circuit is completely independant of the ignition other than a shared ground connection in the ebox so you can narrow your troubleshooting to just a few components.
You could literally remove the coil, stator, CDI, even the rectifier and the ski should still crank, (rectifier is for charging circuit only).

Try exercising the buttons on the start/stop, including the tether button and then look at the black and white connectors for corroded or loose pins. I've also seen where these wires break internally where they go through the grommet going into the ebox. The ends of the wires make contact intermittently and are very hard to diagnose until they fail outright.

 

[OCD Solutions]

^^ Good point. Worn or siezed brushes in the starter motor could be a likely culprit too. Does the Solenoid click every time you press the button or is it intermittent too? If it clicks everytime then you can narrow your search down even further and look at the solenoid itself, the starter or starter wiring.

If you suspect the starter, try tapping on the side of it to see if you can get the brushes to break loose or settle close enough to the commutator to make contact.

 

[WFO Speedracer]

If you have the electrical box open already you can simply disconnect the red wire on the solenoid that goes to the start switch, touch that to positive solenoid post , this is the cable coming from the battery, that will actuate the starter solenoid if it is good, if it works now you know your issue is in the wiring or the start stop switch., if the solenoid engages but the starter doesn't turn over disconnect the starter cable and see if you have 12v on that post when you energize the solenoid, if you do check the starter.

You can't just check it without taking the cable off because a shorted starter will suck up all the voltage and still not turn.

 

[SN.VS]

If I put 12v to the solenoid it will click and the starter will crank every time using a jumper wire. If I press the green start button the solenoid does not click and starter doesn’t crank. The starter works every time I short it to the battery. It’s looking like something within the solenoid wiring circuitry.

 

[WFO Speedracer]

The Yamaha start stop switch is quite complex, it's actually two switches, the start switch and the lanyard switch, it is usually the lanyard switch that screws up, on a sit-down you can unplug the switch at the front, I honestly don't remember if you can on a Superjet but if you can unplug it , plug the stop switch wiring into the start switch wiring, start is red-brown, stop is black-white, hit the stop switch if it cranks now the lanyard switch is most likely toast, sometimes you can take them apart and fix them but usually it is a bad spring that has rusted and lost tension along with dirty contacts, lots of small parts in there and unless you have some spare switches laying around I wouldn't try it.

 

[SN.VS]

SOLVED, I found the issue to be corrosion on the brown wire in the white connector. Thank you all for the help you guys are awesome! I had a feeling it would be something simple haha