Custom/Hybrid Superfreak Pump Install issues...Need tips/advice

[jloria]

I started my SF build this weekend. Wanted get the pump/midshaft/engine aligned but ran into a road block very quick.

I called jetmaniac on Saturday and he walked me through the steps and gave me some great pointers. I tried to get the pump to line up with the pump bolt inserts, but I just can't get the last 2-4mm or so. Very frustrating.

This is my first pump alignment so I am not sure how to tackle the problem. The pump shoe and pump inserts seem to be installed very well.


I am not sure if I need to do one of the following or a combination of sorts:

1. Grind the soft/flappy part of the pump seal. The part that goes up against the pump shoe.

Does anyone do this or will this cause cavitation issues or any other issues?
It seems that if I can grind the flap off, the pump will line up just fine.

2. Grind the pump shoe
3. Grind the wear ring near the front where it meets the pump seal between the wear ring brackets.
4. Grind some of the hull down, near the pump shoe. Hoping that the pump would slide forward a tad to drop the bolts in.
4. Reinstall new inserts to get them more forward

Here are some pics. I will try to tell the story as best as I can.

Pics of the pump shoe and how it's installed.

 

[jloria]

Pics of pump alignment:



I am like 2-4mm off on these photos...so so close.

 

[Crab]

Whoow, hold off on grinding anything until you see if the pump shoe is square to the pump. With the pump inserted and lined up and centered, the pump seal off, you should be able to see how close it is all the way around.

 

[Matt_E]

1. Make sure that the top of the pump seal is ground flat. You need to take some material off.
2. You may need to grind a little bit off the pump in that area, as well.
3. Use a ratched strap around the pump and the front of the hull. Basically you're using the strap to force the pump forward. Makes life a lot easier.
4. The rear two inserts may be off a little bit. They were on mine. I needed to open up the holes in the reduction nozzle tabs a little.

 

[jloria]

Pics of the pump seal where I ground down some spots for fitment. When I talked to JM, He said that I may need to grind down the pump seal to metal if I heard him correctly.

I learn best visually and kinesthetically, when it comes to things like this. Plus I was in a warehouse and I couldn't hear JM that great.

I hope I got it right but I am afraid that I didn't. He explained that I may need to grind the pump seal down a bit( the part that would touch the part of the hull.

 

[jloria]

These are the last pics that I took:

 

[Matt_E]

Ok, that looks good.

 

[TheBuzzard]

yea, i've had to oblong the pump mounting holes to get it lined up. i'm a quick fix butcher, so that may or may not be the correct way, but it works.

 

[jloria]

Thanks...I mocked it up without the pump seal and it looked pretty good. It looked like it would fit. I will def look at it again though.

 

[Matt_E]

Ratched strap, bro. My 140 mag desperately needed it.
My 148 mag could do without it.

 

[jloria]

1. Make sure that the top of the pump seal is ground flat. You need to take some material off.
2. You may need to grind a little bit off the pump in that area, as well.
3. Use a ratched strap around the pump and the front of the hull. Basically you're using the strap to force the pump forward. Makes life a lot easier.
4. The rear two inserts may be off a little bit. They were on mine. I needed to open up the holes in the reduction nozzle tabs a little.

Great points...I will def use the ratcheting strap idea instead of the clamps.

Is it ok if I just open up the holes in the reduction nozzles and the wear ring?

Is it a no-no opening the wear ring bracket holes up since I have the dowels out?

Would flat washer and then a lock washer do the trick?

 

[jloria]

Ratched strap, bro. My 140 mag desperately needed it.
My 148 mag could do without it.

That's a great idea...the clamps were a pain to get them to pull the pump closer.

R u guys attaching the hook to the reduction nozzle or using a soft-strap type ratchet?

 

[Matt_E]

That's a great idea...the clamps were a pain to get them to pull the pump closer.

R u guys attaching the hook to the reduction nozzle or using a soft-strap type ratchet?

I put a hook on the reduction nozzle tabs.
I wouldn't open the wear ring holes - but only because in my experience, those were dead on.

 

[Crab]

Another thing I did, bolt it up snug so it will stay and smack the reduction nozzle with a rubber hammer if needed to get the driveshaft centered, it should move then stay where you want if done right.

 

[Watty]

If you are talking about getting the pump pushed up against the pump shoe enough...here's what I do.

- Flip the hull (you've done this)
- Make sure the pump will fit up ok without the pump seal
- Fit the pump seal, fit pump
- Get some large philips head screw drivers that are slightly smaller than the 8mm pump inserts
- Place a screw driver through the reduction nozzle mounting tabs and into the insert holes on either side
- Lever the pump forward with both screw drivers until front holes line up with hull inserts
- Have a buddy tighten them up while you continue to hold the screw drivers/pump in place

Once the front bolts are done up, the pump shouldn't move and the rear holes will be aligned as well. You may have to do again if you need to shim the pump, but at least you know how.

You won't damage the threads in the hull if you use large screw drivers. Tight pumps are a pain, but they are better for performance etc.

 

[jloria]

If you are talking about getting the pump pushed up against the pump shoe enough...here's what I do.

- Flip the hull (you've done this)
- Make sure the pump will fit up ok without the pump seal
- Fit the pump seal, fit pump
- Get some large philips head screw drivers that are slightly smaller than the 8mm pump inserts
- Place a screw driver through the reduction nozzle mounting tabs and into the insert holes on either side
- Lever the pump forward with both screw drivers until front holes line up with hull inserts
- Have a buddy tighten them up while you continue to hold the screw drivers/pump in place

Once the front bolts are done up, the pump shouldn't move and the rear holes will be aligned as well. You may have to do again if you need to shim the pump, but at least you know how.

You won't damage the threads in the hull if you use large screw drivers. Tight pumps are a pain, but they are better for performance etc.

I am lovin these tips...Please chime in if you have any good pointers

JM says that once you get the pump lined up and bolted down, you can always leave the wear ring and pump seal bolted up by pulling the long bolts out.

Changing the impeller for example...


Unless of course, you need to work on those parts...

 

[KTM434]

Watty maybe in your experience you haven't damaged the threads on the inserts by prying on them with screw drivers but I wouldn't advise anyone to do that. Not everybody knows how much prying pressure is safe. If the pump is hard enough to move forward then I wouldn't want to put all that stress on the threads especially when it's the pump inserts. Using a dead blow hammer will help get the pump where it needs to be if the inserts are properly located and it's just hard getting the pump to line up and push forward. If the hull inserts are located too far forward (I didn't have this problem on mine) you may need to enlarge the holes in the wear ring or reduction nozzle flanges (depending which ones don't line up) if the ratchet strap doesn't do the trick. Just make sure there is enough pressure on the pump seal so it still seals tightly enough to avoid cavitation. Any gaps or uneven transitions between pump shoe/pump seal/wear ring can be filled with silicone or similar. I had to grind my pump seal like you did and also did a little grinding on the wear ring in the same area (the raised flanges) and maybe the pump too just so I knew they wouldn't be tightened into the hull causing extra stress on the hull and inserts and so I knew the pump flanges would sit flat on the hull.

 

[TheBuzzard]

i found out that the freak wont cavitate if the pump seal is very loose. on mine, the 2 wear ring bolts fell out and the 2 nozzle bolts were very loose. the whole pump was about to fall out and it has no effect on performance. luckily i saw it before the mag pump ended up in davy jones locker. the pump seal was rattling around in there like a BB in a bandaid box and no cavitation. i was impressed.

 

[sportfish258]

I used cabinet clamps ..... Easy as pie. pM Sanoman he just sent so pics the other day of the same method.

 

[Watty]

Watty maybe in your experience you haven't damaged the threads on the inserts by prying on them with screw drivers but I wouldn't advise anyone to do that. Not everybody knows how much prying pressure is safe. If the pump is hard enough to move forward then I wouldn't want to put all that stress on the threads especially when it's the pump inserts. Using a dead blow hammer will help get the pump where it needs to be if the inserts are properly located and it's just hard getting the pump to line up and push forward. If the hull inserts are located too far forward (I didn't have this problem on mine) you may need to enlarge the holes in the wear ring or reduction nozzle flanges (depending which ones don't line up) if the ratchet strap doesn't do the trick. Just make sure there is enough pressure on the pump seal so it still seals tightly enough to avoid cavitation. Any gaps or uneven transitions between pump shoe/pump seal/wear ring can be filled with silicone or similar. I had to grind my pump seal like you did and also did a little grinding on the wear ring in the same area (the raised flanges) and maybe the pump too just so I knew they wouldn't be tightened into the hull causing extra stress on the hull and inserts and so I knew the pump flanges would sit flat on the hull.

That's why you dry fit the pump first without the seal, you can see what you're working with. Also, common sense prevails when using the method I suggested. You don't want to have to swing off the screw drivers to push the pump in. Obviously if there is a lot of resistance, it's not going any further. If someone can't use some common sense when fitting a pump and know how much pressure is safe, what's stopping them from cross threading a pump bolt and just winding that sucker home?!

I would have done this to 20+ ski's and have NEVER damaged a thread, or even made it so the pump bolt is tough to screw in. You will find you have to do the same to any Foot Rocket as well. They go in nice and tight using the screw driver method, or, you can leave the pump seal out and silicone seal the area with great results. The only problem with this method is if you have to pull the pump, you need to clean all the sealant off and start again.