Hey guys I installed my MSD enhancer and also my B pipe and now I went to test before putter the gas tank back in and there is no spark when I try to crank over the ski. Any ideas. I am thinking the best place to start would be in the MSD but any thoughts or recommendations?
Superjet No Spark!!!
- Thread starter 08sxr800
- Start date
Idok
F1pro
- Location
- Nations oldest muthaF+++kin city
- Location
- Granbury, TX
I had the same problem when I installed my enhancer. From what I have read here, the ground on a superjet stator can have a weak connection that doesn't allow the MSD to create a spark at the coil. When it happened to me I happened to have a spare stator lying around, threw it in - problem solved. If you need your stator fixed, I know John at Jet Ski Solutions does great work for a good price.
Also check that your start stop switch is working properly.
Also check that your start stop switch is working properly.
The Penguin
triple secret probation
- Location
- down by the river
yes, re-check all connections on the MSD their wiring diagram sucks.
check start/stop switch to eliminate it also
#zero also does nice work on stators.
check start/stop switch to eliminate it also
#zero also does nice work on stators.
Tyler Zane
Open Your Eyes
- Location
- Panama City Beach, FL
over kill maybe.... but i saved this when i saw it, thought it may come in handy one day. hope it helps.... if not, well i just wasted a whole bunch of space 
1. check the AC output of the "charge" coil. Don't get confused with the term "charge" coil......this is what Yamaha calls it, as it "charges" the cdi capacitor. This coil can generate in excess of 500 volts!!
Dis- connect the brown / white trace wire and ground wire and connect the meter leads to these wires, and while cranking the engine, observe the reading. You should have 30 to 50 volts AC depending on how good a battery and starter you have.
2. Check the pulser coil output. It's job is to tell the cdi when to fire the energy stored in the capacitor. Dis- connect the white / red trace wire and connect the meter leads to this wire and the ground wire. You should get a pulsating 4 to 5 volts AC. (ps, an analog meter is best for this test)
3. If you are having problems with the battery not recharging, then dis- connect the two green wires and read the cranking voltage produced by the "lighting" coil. This coil's name is a throw back from the old enduro bike days, when the manufacturer would add a coil to the stator to operate head, brake and turn signal lights....without a battery, and later with. Anyway, you should see 6 to 10 volts or so here, again AC. This coil puts out close to 20+ volts AC, to be recitified to DC and regulated at 13.5 or so to recharge the battery. This coil is rated to generate up to about 2amps of charging current. This in mind, beware when running two bilge pumps.....a battery going bad (high internal resistance) and two bilge pumps running for a extending time is just enough to cook a lighting coil.
4. Ignition coil. Not many folks do not have a meter capable of resolving the almost dead short of the primary on this coil. But if you do, the resistance should be .078 to .106 DON'T forget to subtract the meter leads resistance by shorting together and subtracting, or adjusting the zero ohms pot, if you have it. Also, remove and insert the leads in the sockets to clean the connection.....I often see 1 ohm or more go down to .2 or .3 by performing this task.
NEXT, check the health of your spark plug wires, or high tension wires as the Brits like to say. The only way to test them properly is to remove the boots and get to the end of the wire. You can try jamming the point of the meter probes into the end, but due to the dirt and metal dust, it often does NOT give a solid connection / reading. If you have electrical contact cleaner, by all means spray with that first. You should read 3500 to 4700 ohms, or 3.5 to 4.7K ohms STEADY....while flexing the wires from end to end. If you get any fluctuations, they are bad...IE breaking up inside, turning to a high resistance powder of metal and rubber. I have seen bad plug wires cause problems with idle and low speed only, mid range only, and high speed only, and every combination thereof. Very strange !!!
If all these check out good, then I would swap the cdi with a known good unit....and known good means just what it says.....you have had it running in your boat, you removed it, and you put it away..The only other known good is a new unit. I have heard many a sad tale of days of trouble shooting with no luck, only to find out that the "known good" cdi your buddy gave or loaned you was not good after all.
Another interesting point is the "sparks when you let off the start button" syndrome. This always means on of two things......the cdi is bad, or the pulser coil is bad, or the wire from it to the e box is open.
Another good point to keep in mind: it is very possible to have two problems going on at once. One, like bad plug wires may have going on for a while, but no creating any major problems....the performance degrades so slowly you really don't notice it. Then, the charge coil insulation starts breaking down, or the connection from the winding to the terminal posts goes bad and starts arcing over. The two combined creat havoc, and can make diagnosis difficult.
After seeing so many stator coils have a good resistance, but test bad....I strongly advise against using resistance readings alone a gauge of health. Perform the cranking voltage output test!! Resistance readings are still useful for some work, so here they are for 61X and 62T:
61X: charge coil, brown / white trace to ground / black: 365 +- 10%
Pulser coil, white / red trace to ground / black: 12.6 to 15.4
62T: Charge coil, brown / white trace to ground / black: 497 to 608
Pulser coil, same as above
Lighting coil, green / green wires: 1.14 to 1.40 Since this coil is not grounded in any way to the stator frame, you can check this coil for leakage to ground (indicating bad insulation) by measuring between either green wire and ground with your meter set on the highest ohms scale, usually 20 to 40 meg ohms. If you get any reading, the coil is going bad.
There are other tests we perform to positively verify a coil's health, but the equipment is specialized and the proceedure is beyond the scope of this posting.
A note about the ignition coil: CDI ignition coils are much different than the coils in many cars, especially older cars. Those coils operate on the "collapsing magnetic field" principle to creat the high voltage. CDI ignition coils are in essence "step up transformers" simular to any any plug in wall transformer to operate various devices. The output is directly proportional to the input.
Another interesting proceedure you can do to gain more information about your coil's health.......hook your meter up to any coil, set it on the highest scale, and observe the reading. Leaving it there for an hour or more and come back and see what it reads. A lower reading or higher reading, or a reading that will not stabilize indicates a bad, or going bad coil. This may only work with better quality meters.
1. check the AC output of the "charge" coil. Don't get confused with the term "charge" coil......this is what Yamaha calls it, as it "charges" the cdi capacitor. This coil can generate in excess of 500 volts!!
Dis- connect the brown / white trace wire and ground wire and connect the meter leads to these wires, and while cranking the engine, observe the reading. You should have 30 to 50 volts AC depending on how good a battery and starter you have.
2. Check the pulser coil output. It's job is to tell the cdi when to fire the energy stored in the capacitor. Dis- connect the white / red trace wire and connect the meter leads to this wire and the ground wire. You should get a pulsating 4 to 5 volts AC. (ps, an analog meter is best for this test)
3. If you are having problems with the battery not recharging, then dis- connect the two green wires and read the cranking voltage produced by the "lighting" coil. This coil's name is a throw back from the old enduro bike days, when the manufacturer would add a coil to the stator to operate head, brake and turn signal lights....without a battery, and later with. Anyway, you should see 6 to 10 volts or so here, again AC. This coil puts out close to 20+ volts AC, to be recitified to DC and regulated at 13.5 or so to recharge the battery. This coil is rated to generate up to about 2amps of charging current. This in mind, beware when running two bilge pumps.....a battery going bad (high internal resistance) and two bilge pumps running for a extending time is just enough to cook a lighting coil.
4. Ignition coil. Not many folks do not have a meter capable of resolving the almost dead short of the primary on this coil. But if you do, the resistance should be .078 to .106 DON'T forget to subtract the meter leads resistance by shorting together and subtracting, or adjusting the zero ohms pot, if you have it. Also, remove and insert the leads in the sockets to clean the connection.....I often see 1 ohm or more go down to .2 or .3 by performing this task.
NEXT, check the health of your spark plug wires, or high tension wires as the Brits like to say. The only way to test them properly is to remove the boots and get to the end of the wire. You can try jamming the point of the meter probes into the end, but due to the dirt and metal dust, it often does NOT give a solid connection / reading. If you have electrical contact cleaner, by all means spray with that first. You should read 3500 to 4700 ohms, or 3.5 to 4.7K ohms STEADY....while flexing the wires from end to end. If you get any fluctuations, they are bad...IE breaking up inside, turning to a high resistance powder of metal and rubber. I have seen bad plug wires cause problems with idle and low speed only, mid range only, and high speed only, and every combination thereof. Very strange !!!
If all these check out good, then I would swap the cdi with a known good unit....and known good means just what it says.....you have had it running in your boat, you removed it, and you put it away..The only other known good is a new unit. I have heard many a sad tale of days of trouble shooting with no luck, only to find out that the "known good" cdi your buddy gave or loaned you was not good after all.
Another interesting point is the "sparks when you let off the start button" syndrome. This always means on of two things......the cdi is bad, or the pulser coil is bad, or the wire from it to the e box is open.
Another good point to keep in mind: it is very possible to have two problems going on at once. One, like bad plug wires may have going on for a while, but no creating any major problems....the performance degrades so slowly you really don't notice it. Then, the charge coil insulation starts breaking down, or the connection from the winding to the terminal posts goes bad and starts arcing over. The two combined creat havoc, and can make diagnosis difficult.
After seeing so many stator coils have a good resistance, but test bad....I strongly advise against using resistance readings alone a gauge of health. Perform the cranking voltage output test!! Resistance readings are still useful for some work, so here they are for 61X and 62T:
61X: charge coil, brown / white trace to ground / black: 365 +- 10%
Pulser coil, white / red trace to ground / black: 12.6 to 15.4
62T: Charge coil, brown / white trace to ground / black: 497 to 608
Pulser coil, same as above
Lighting coil, green / green wires: 1.14 to 1.40 Since this coil is not grounded in any way to the stator frame, you can check this coil for leakage to ground (indicating bad insulation) by measuring between either green wire and ground with your meter set on the highest ohms scale, usually 20 to 40 meg ohms. If you get any reading, the coil is going bad.
There are other tests we perform to positively verify a coil's health, but the equipment is specialized and the proceedure is beyond the scope of this posting.
A note about the ignition coil: CDI ignition coils are much different than the coils in many cars, especially older cars. Those coils operate on the "collapsing magnetic field" principle to creat the high voltage. CDI ignition coils are in essence "step up transformers" simular to any any plug in wall transformer to operate various devices. The output is directly proportional to the input.
Another interesting proceedure you can do to gain more information about your coil's health.......hook your meter up to any coil, set it on the highest scale, and observe the reading. Leaving it there for an hour or more and come back and see what it reads. A lower reading or higher reading, or a reading that will not stabilize indicates a bad, or going bad coil. This may only work with better quality meters.
Hey guys just talked to MSD and they sent me a new diagram because there's sucks to follow any lines. I am thinking that it is something with one of the connections or ground but I will post this one to help anyone. Life would have been ten times easier if they would update their website.
Attachments
Last edited:
- Location
- central florida
Please, recheck your wiring hook up , that's usually the problem. Ask again if something is not clear.
5810
WHERE-THE-SEAT-AT
- Location
- Knoxville TN
I takes less than 10 mins to rip the box apart
SUPERTUNE
Race Gas Rules
- Location
- Clearwater Fl.
Two things come to mind...
1st:
MSD uses 2 white wires with 2 different ends. '96 up Superjet 62T stators will use a female to female jumper (comes with the ignition in the box) to connect to the stator white/red male and the MSD has a white male.
The '90-'95 6M6 & 61X stator will NOT use the jumper adapter lead and plugs directly to the stator lead.
The 2nd white wire from the MSD will plug directly to the white lead for the start/stop harness lead that goes through e box grommet to the 2 pin start/stop plug lead.
Make sure this is wired correctly.
2nd:
MSD Enhancers have a split red 3 wire joint and is heat shrinked, this joint is a common problem to not be good, so when having spark troubles always re-solder this joint to be sure this connection is 100%.
Then if this doesn't fix it, try a new MSD or stock CDI.
Of course as stated in a previous posts an inspection of wiring, stator and coil should be done.
Sometimes you don't want to over think this too, and do a tear down of the stator and flywheel to look for problems. (broken wires, corrosion, water intrusion, bendix broken and throwing parts around and causing damage to the stator of flywheel.
1st:
MSD uses 2 white wires with 2 different ends. '96 up Superjet 62T stators will use a female to female jumper (comes with the ignition in the box) to connect to the stator white/red male and the MSD has a white male.
The '90-'95 6M6 & 61X stator will NOT use the jumper adapter lead and plugs directly to the stator lead.
The 2nd white wire from the MSD will plug directly to the white lead for the start/stop harness lead that goes through e box grommet to the 2 pin start/stop plug lead.
Make sure this is wired correctly.
2nd:
MSD Enhancers have a split red 3 wire joint and is heat shrinked, this joint is a common problem to not be good, so when having spark troubles always re-solder this joint to be sure this connection is 100%.
Then if this doesn't fix it, try a new MSD or stock CDI.
Of course as stated in a previous posts an inspection of wiring, stator and coil should be done.
Sometimes you don't want to over think this too, and do a tear down of the stator and flywheel to look for problems. (broken wires, corrosion, water intrusion, bendix broken and throwing parts around and causing damage to the stator of flywheel.
Tyler Zane
Open Your Eyes
- Location
- Panama City Beach, FL
supertune you never cease to amaze me...... thats why i what you to build my motor in October....
SUPERTUNE
Race Gas Rules
- Location
- Clearwater Fl.
Thanks for the kind words!
I'm sure we could build something to suit your needs...
I call them ENGINES.
Tyler Zane
Open Your Eyes
- Location
- Panama City Beach, FL
haha ya i gotcha, a motor is electric and a engine is combustion.... ya we have talked a few times via email (need4speed56) about "701 options" and different carbs. your probably a busy man and may not remember me but i day dream about getting my "engine" built everyday. its gonna be a happy day when that dream comes true! your logo will be on the side of my sj upside down...
SUPERTUNE
Race Gas Rules
- Location
- Clearwater Fl.
Have you been able to find out what's up with your spark?
Nope! Not me, as that was Chad! One of the best things about our shop is all the great people we have, everyone does their jobs very well, and I don't have to do it all! I'm mostly in the engine shop doing engine design, (Patrick and the 'CNC' machinists make the parts) engine machine work, porting, carb and engine prep and overseeing the technical side of the engines with Mike being a 2nd half of me.
Chad, Mike, Patrick, Brandon, Greg, Danny, Rick and myself.
- Location
- Largo, Fl
all great dudes... everyone there has a unique talent.
- Location
- Saudi Arabia, jeddah
Man.
I want to give my ski pwoer to jump higher . So
Can "msd coil" give my superjet some power?
Feedback please
- Location
- central florida
The Msd coil wont do anything (!) for you. A Msd enhancer would advance the timing for more power when accelerating, however those few degrees are hardly noticeable. A electronic, programmable ignition such as MSD total loss , or a Zeeltronic setup should make a noticeable difference!
- Location
- Saudi Arabia, jeddah
So any suggestions , for how to give it power
SXIPro
JM781 Big Bore
- Location
- Here on the 'X' mostly
Factory B-Pipe, Hooker 9/15 impeller, ADA Girdled head, lightened flywheel, yadda yadda yadda