Test Subjects wanted!!

[DylanS]

I’m looking for a few guys that would be willing to send me pistons/bearings for me to “treat” them and send them back for testing and reviewing.
I am involved with a small business that offers treatments to pistons, bearings, wrist pins, cams, gears, etc that greatly improve oil retention, reduce friction, and lengthens the life of parts.
We have been doing this for Micro Sprint cars for a long time and it’s time we begin to expand into other sports.
This is a multi stage process that involves the micro pitting/coating of engine parts and a similar process for bearings that receive our top secret grease.
It sounds like a snake oil ordeal so I’m basically looking for some test subjects that would let me treat their parts FREE of charge under the condition that they give my work a honest review. I only ask that you pay the shipping to me, I will cover the return.
On average we are seeing right around double the life expectancy on our bearings and pistons on micro sprint 600 cars. I can do pump/midshaft bearings, pistons, wrist pins/bearings, crank bearings.
I’m simply trying to see if anyone would be interested in something like this, parts are NOT cheap these days.

Here are some pictures, the first piston is a before and after of the first step of the treatment.
The last picture is first step next to final step.
All “dark” pieces are finished product.
I would also be willing to send out some sample bearings to show you how much better they spin as compared to factory.

 

[Sparkplug]

I brought up molybdenum coated pistons in a aviation forum. I was told by multiple aviation engineers that they are not used in oem. For a reason. But couldn't give me one.

Many a&p said they had used aftermarket coated pistons with great results. And that they offer superior protection.

I'll be using coated pistons in my next build.

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk

 

[DylanS]

I brought up molybdenum coated pistons in a aviation forum. I was told by multiple aviation engineers that they are not used in oem. For a reason. But couldn't give me one.

Many a&p said they had used aftermarket coated pistons with great results. And that they offer superior protection.

I'll be using coated pistons in my next build.

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk

If you have them on hand I’d be more than happy to do them for you.
I will be running treated parts on all of my motors from now on.
We go by “m2 bearings”.
Here is the listing off Hypers website, they word it better than me!

 

[sturat]

How much does the coating add as far as mils/thou?

 

[WFO Speedracer]

I will say this much, I have run WSM coated pistons for years, I had a customer run one of the engines I built out of oil, the bore was scored up but all that happened to the piston was the coating was rubbed off, you could have literally bored another cylinder to that piston and reused it.

 

[Pro-pulsion]

In regards to the aviation side of it, based on what little I can recall as second hand knowledge for such things like ultralight experimental aircraft (ultralights are actually classed as that, experimental aircraft), the older small bush planes etc and many of the newer ones, it's all old tech by intention. The reason being is the "don't fix what isn't broken" saying. If a design has proven to be reliable within a certain threshold, say it surpasses a specific number of operating hours the Federal Aviation Authority specs out for parts replacement time in operational hours, or some sort of detail like that, then it is considered a "don't fix what isn't broken" part. Granted they will still replace those parts regardless but it basically means when they replace them, if those parts pass inspections like x-rays and stress tests and do so with flying colors, then the FAA won't change the design or the part. A friend of mine once told me that the aviation industry moves very slowly on the upgrades market because they want to make absolutely certain the upgrades will have a solid record of reliability before they put them into regular service. The ultralight class only just had the Rotax 570 approved for use about 20 or so years ago even though they've been in watercraft since I believe it was the mid 80's...slow moving industry for sure. He said the aviation industry is about 20 years behind everyone else in most cases. He was an ultralight builder and pilot, I went up with him in his ultralight once, it was neat and he was a dam fine pilot

 

[DylanS]

How much does the coating add as far as mils/thou?

It’s that thin you won’t even be able to measure the difference !!
I should clarify that it’s more of a treatment than a coating, the end result leaves you with the “treatment” as part of the metal.
If anyone is interested I can treat some bearings and send them their way to feel the difference.

 

[mthomps]

I brought up molybdenum coated pistons in a aviation forum. I was told by multiple aviation engineers that they are not used in oem. For a reason. But couldn't give me one.

Many a&p said they had used aftermarket coated pistons with great results. And that they offer superior protection.

I'll be using coated pistons in my next build.

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk

I work with "molly" as it's called in my industry every day. It's super brittle cold and very malleable when hot. What that means for a 2 stroke jet ski engine...I dont know

 

[Quinc]

After 1000's of rounds the parts I had coated are still holding up great. The guy also uses it in his race car builds with great results.

 

[WFO Speedracer]

This seems similar to a KalGard type coating, I remember they used to bead blast pistons at low PSI and coat them for better thermal properties and reduced friction

 

[generaldisarray]

I used to work at a shop that did this for injection and blow mold parts. It was called Dicronite. Worked the same way as Speedracers Kalgard. Bead blast then blasted with the stuff.

 

[DylanS]

I used to work at a shop that did this for injection and blow mold parts. It was called Dicronite. Worked the same way as Speedracers Kalgard. Bead blast then blasted with the stuff

Very similar process, different materials I’m sure.
The bearings get a 3 step process and the engine parts a 2 generally.
Leaves the parts with a greased lightening finish…

Soon we’re hoping to get a control motor on the dyno and run it and then compare when treated. We aren’t looking for huge horsepower gains as longevity is more of a priority but we expect to see a difference on the 4cyl motors. I also do a lot of treating to transmission parts, guys say it makes shifting a lot smoother.
I’m going to upload a video comparison on pump bearings soon to show just how much of a difference it makes. I would not be surprised to see double the life out of treated pump and midshaft bearings especially with this grease.

 

[Quinc]

Can you do a crank shaft then leave it in a bucket of salt water for a few days and see how it looks/feels? Also be an interesting test to do everything in the engine then run it with just gas and no oil mixed in. See how long it lasts.

 

[Storbeck]

Do pump bearings wear out? I've only replaced them due to corrosion. I would say that's the case for just about all of the bearings in my life but I don't have anything that is super extreme, comp 1200 or some such.

 

[DylanS]

Do pump bearings wear out? I've only replaced them due to corrosion. I would say that's the case for just about all of the bearings in my life but I don't have anything that is super extreme, comp 1200 or some such.

In most cases water ingestion kills them first but if not overtime any metal on metal moving part will wear down and lose it tolerances. I’ve seen oem square nose bearings in functional shape but I’ve also seen them have a bit of slop. Although longevity is a big plus you would still be amazed at how much smoother the bearings will spin after treatment. The grease we pack with is borderline impossible to displace or remove from anything it touches so I’m sure it would add a degree of corrosion protection.
For guys like us who casually ride I would say the longevity of a 60 set of bearings and your time to install is the big ticket, but for the guys who run them in their sprint cars every little bit matters. That’s why I’m not making any huge claims on performance gains until I can get some numbers or testing. I can promise you though anyone who compares a treated and non treated surface/bearing will be impressed

 

[DylanS]

Can you do a crank shaft then leave it in a bucket of salt water for a few days and see how it looks/feels? Also be an interesting test to do everything in the engine then run it with just gas and no oil mixed in. See how long it lasts.

The issue with crankshafts is that I would need the bearings removed to properly treat them then reinstalled… as far as the corrosion inhibiting properties of the treatment itself I would be able to test by treating any metal surface and letting it sit. The grease is the big ticket for corrosion inhibiting and we all know there’s no grease in these crank bearings!!!
A good test would be to properly treat a crank, run it in a ski to get it coated with oil as it would normally be, then submerge and test next to a non-treated crank. This way we can see how much oil retention were gaining.
As far as doing everything with No oil.. well as soon as someone sends me their motor I’d be happy to torture test it LOL

 

[bored&stroked]

Aviation won't change whats not broken for one simple reason: cost. The cost to re-certify things for FAA compliance is absurdly high, and you have to do that every time you change anything at all.

Oem vehicle manufacturers have been using coated pistons for a while now. Aftermarket for far longer then oem's. Its a proven technology at this point and if I had the spare cash I'd coat everything lol

 

[DylanS]

Aviation won't change whats not broken for one simple reason: cost. The cost to re-certify things for FAA compliance is absurdly high, and you have to do that every time you change anything at all.

Oem vehicle manufacturers have been using coated pistons for a while now. Aftermarket for far longer then oem's. Its a proven technology at this point and if I had the spare cash I'd coat everything lol

As of now I’m looking to do pistons for about 20-25 a piece, wrist pin and bearing combo w/piston for 30-35 a set. I don’t want to price it too high to discourage anyone from trying it out but at 250 plus a piece for pistons on some motors it’s something to consider for longevity sake.
So far no takers on the offer to try it out for free
I’m very curious to see how the treatment holds up over time in a pwc motor

 

[aboarder]

Where would we have to send things and how long is the turnaround?

 

[bored&stroked]

If I had a new top end to build I'd take you up on the offer ASAP! Don't want to do it with old used pistons though that doesn't make sense to me.