- Location
- Lake Orion, Michigan
I won't call this a review, but rather rides notes... I have had the opportunity to use a couple different TNT waterboxes, a complete TNT V2 Pro Exhaust System, and PowerFactor Exhaust Systems / Components on a couple different ski's back to back, and thought I'd share my experience(s).
While I have owned a LOT of different hull and motor combos over the years (Lamey 803cc, xs865, xs1000, xs1200), all of them I ran a PowerFactor setup only on, so I won't use them in the notes below. The ski(s) I used both the PowerFactor and TNT components on are VERY similar in spec as noted below.
My Disclaimer: Everyone has there own idea on what "powerful" is, so take what I present below with a grain of salt I suppose. In reality, there are many different combinations of components out there that can be assembled. For me, I am shooting for a specific powerband. Up until mid summer this year / 2016, I wanted great bottom and mid, and didn't care much about the top. This mean't I could approach the setup wake much slower and still do what I wanted to do. I sacrifice a little height in my tricks by doing this, but I feel more controlled and comfortable going slower. Now after doing more combo type riding (multiple flips, flips to spin, spin to flip), I have been chasing more of a good bottom, great mid, and good top powerband, while also trying to keep my speed up going into the setup wake.
I am fortunate to live and ride on Lake Orion, where we have MANY top riders (Justin Sylvain, Evan Krefski, Bobby Clouse, Scotty Delong). Everytime I made a change to the ski, I also put it in there hands for feedback, to put it to the "bigger / better combo test" than I can. All of them reported back almost identical feedback, that I go on to list below.
First setup (December 2015 / Thrown together right before Daytona freeride)
Setup before: Tuned and dialed spot on. Very snappy, and great low end. After a lot of experimentation with different jets in the water injection system, I have found 175 Degree's on the Exhaust Chamber (fastest part), and 130 Degree's on the Waterbox (top) to be most optimal for what I am doing (which means changing jets as the water / air temps change). Video(s) of it in action BEFORE any TNT Waterbox installed:
Backflip
Another Backflip
Barrol Roll to Crash Landing (no shame
)
Modification Performed: Removed PowerFactor Waterbox, installed TNT waterbox. Was hoping to quiet the machine down a lot, and NOT sacrifice power.
Observations: First, it was quite a bit quieter. BUT, even more noticeable, was the loss in power... everywhere. It softened up the power across the whole powerband. I tried playing with the amount of water going into the Stinger end (and ultimately to the waterbox)... The best result I had, was overflooding it with water, to create more back pressure, however unless you ALWAYS stayed on the throttle, it made the ski unrideable and very boggy down low because of the amount of water going through it... even then it did not perform as well as the PowerFactor waterbox. I switched back to the PowerFactor Waterbox.
Second setup (April 2016 / All brand new components from what is listed above)
1st Modification Performed: Removed TNT waterbox, and installed PowerFactor Waterbox.
Setup became: TNT Manifold, TNT V2 Pro Chamber, and PowerFactor Waterbox.
Observations: First, was it was a bit louder. BUT, even more noticeable, was the GAIN in power... everywhere. Made the powerband snappier EVERYWHERE. I continued to experiment with the amount of water going into the Stinger (waterbox). The dryer it was, the better it was. But still, no mater how much I tinkered and experimented with the Water Injection on the TNT V2 Chamber (again, LOTS of different jet and flow control combinations), it did NOT feel as good as the overall PowerFactor Wetpipe setup.
2nd Modification Performed: Removed TNT V2 Chamber, and installed PowerFactor Chamber (configured as a wetpipe).
Setup became: TNT Manifold, PowerFactor Chamber (wetpipe setup), and PowerFactor Waterbox.
Observations: Literally, a night and day difference with little tuning. Shot for 175 Chamber temp, and 130 Waterbox temp like listed above. Insane bottom, good mid and ok top. I would have liked to have spent more time with this chamber, but I was borrowing it from a riding buddy and he wanted it back quick! (whom actually has a VERY comparable build setup). We put the TNT V2 Pro Chamber on his boat, spent some time playing with it, and couldn't get it to hit or perform nearly as well the PowerFactor Wet Chamber.
3rd Modification Performed: Removed PowerFactor Wetpipe Chamber, and installed PowerFactor Dry Pipe Chamber.
Setup became: TNT Manifold, PowerFactor Dry Chamber, and PowerFactor Waterbox.
Observations: I lost a little bottom end, picked up a LOT more mid pull, and good top. The nose of the ski felt a little heavier (because there is now quite a bit of water in the cooling jacket, cooling the exhaust). Overall though, this has been my favorite setup and what I am currently sticking with. I like the heavier nose feeling, as it lets the nose (in my opinion) fall into the setup wake easier, for then riding up it. The only tuning involved, is the amount of water spraying into the system at the Stinger end with the Flor Control Valve (no jet restrictions). I didn't rely on the temp strip, rather the "splash" test this time (like I was used to from years of previous PowerFactor use). The Dryer I ran the waterbox, the better it performed, however I splashed water on the waterbox, and played with the Flow Control Valve until the water would quickly evaporate off the box, but not quite boil (that's too hot).
Vid and Pic of the most recent setup with the Dry Pipe (I'll add to this if I can get someone to film some multi flips / spins for me):
Barrel Roll
Waterbox Conclusion: The PowerFactor Waterbox performed better, both on the PowerFactor system, and the TNT system. I know of two other local riders, whom have similar setups to mine who also had these same findings (sorry, not name dropping).
Exhaust System Conclusion: The PowerFactor Dry Pipe configuration is my favorite. Second would be the PowerFactor Wet Pipe configuration. Third on my list would be the TNT configuration. My 2 cents, after spending a LOT of Test-n-Tune time, and burning a LOT of race gas, I through in the towel on trying to make the TNT system perform as well as the PowerFactor system (either wet or dry). That said, if I was building a straight up Freeride / Cruiser machine that I wanted a good "all around" powerband on, I'd possibly consider running a TNT system again. But for what I enjoy, it's not for me...
Hope someone finds this post interesting
-Andrew
While I have owned a LOT of different hull and motor combos over the years (Lamey 803cc, xs865, xs1000, xs1200), all of them I ran a PowerFactor setup only on, so I won't use them in the notes below. The ski(s) I used both the PowerFactor and TNT components on are VERY similar in spec as noted below.
My Disclaimer: Everyone has there own idea on what "powerful" is, so take what I present below with a grain of salt I suppose. In reality, there are many different combinations of components out there that can be assembled. For me, I am shooting for a specific powerband. Up until mid summer this year / 2016, I wanted great bottom and mid, and didn't care much about the top. This mean't I could approach the setup wake much slower and still do what I wanted to do. I sacrifice a little height in my tricks by doing this, but I feel more controlled and comfortable going slower. Now after doing more combo type riding (multiple flips, flips to spin, spin to flip), I have been chasing more of a good bottom, great mid, and good top powerband, while also trying to keep my speed up going into the setup wake.
I am fortunate to live and ride on Lake Orion, where we have MANY top riders (Justin Sylvain, Evan Krefski, Bobby Clouse, Scotty Delong). Everytime I made a change to the ski, I also put it in there hands for feedback, to put it to the "bigger / better combo test" than I can. All of them reported back almost identical feedback, that I go on to list below.
First setup (December 2015 / Thrown together right before Daytona freeride)
- X Scream DVX Hull
- PHP898 w/PHP Intake
- 48mm Novi's
- 148mm X Scream Mag Pump
- MSD Total Loss
- 250 psi Compression (VP113)
- PowerFactor Manifold (ported)
- PowerFactor Chamber (ran as a wetpipe, injecting at exhaust manifold, and stinger end)
- PowerFactor Waterbox
Setup before: Tuned and dialed spot on. Very snappy, and great low end. After a lot of experimentation with different jets in the water injection system, I have found 175 Degree's on the Exhaust Chamber (fastest part), and 130 Degree's on the Waterbox (top) to be most optimal for what I am doing (which means changing jets as the water / air temps change). Video(s) of it in action BEFORE any TNT Waterbox installed:
Backflip
Another Backflip
Barrol Roll to Crash Landing (no shame
)Modification Performed: Removed PowerFactor Waterbox, installed TNT waterbox. Was hoping to quiet the machine down a lot, and NOT sacrifice power.
Observations: First, it was quite a bit quieter. BUT, even more noticeable, was the loss in power... everywhere. It softened up the power across the whole powerband. I tried playing with the amount of water going into the Stinger end (and ultimately to the waterbox)... The best result I had, was overflooding it with water, to create more back pressure, however unless you ALWAYS stayed on the throttle, it made the ski unrideable and very boggy down low because of the amount of water going through it... even then it did not perform as well as the PowerFactor waterbox. I switched back to the PowerFactor Waterbox.
Second setup (April 2016 / All brand new components from what is listed above)
- X Scream DVX Hull
- PHP898 w/PHP Intake
- 48mm Novi's (LS Edition)
- 155mm Skat 2 Piece Pump
- MSD Total Loss
- 250 psi Compression (VP113)
- TNT Manifold (ported)
- TNT V2 Pro Chamber (ran as a wetpipe, injecting at exhaust manifold, and stinger end)
- TNT Waterbox
1st Modification Performed: Removed TNT waterbox, and installed PowerFactor Waterbox.
Setup became: TNT Manifold, TNT V2 Pro Chamber, and PowerFactor Waterbox.
Observations: First, was it was a bit louder. BUT, even more noticeable, was the GAIN in power... everywhere. Made the powerband snappier EVERYWHERE. I continued to experiment with the amount of water going into the Stinger (waterbox). The dryer it was, the better it was. But still, no mater how much I tinkered and experimented with the Water Injection on the TNT V2 Chamber (again, LOTS of different jet and flow control combinations), it did NOT feel as good as the overall PowerFactor Wetpipe setup.
2nd Modification Performed: Removed TNT V2 Chamber, and installed PowerFactor Chamber (configured as a wetpipe).
Setup became: TNT Manifold, PowerFactor Chamber (wetpipe setup), and PowerFactor Waterbox.
Observations: Literally, a night and day difference with little tuning. Shot for 175 Chamber temp, and 130 Waterbox temp like listed above. Insane bottom, good mid and ok top. I would have liked to have spent more time with this chamber, but I was borrowing it from a riding buddy and he wanted it back quick! (whom actually has a VERY comparable build setup). We put the TNT V2 Pro Chamber on his boat, spent some time playing with it, and couldn't get it to hit or perform nearly as well the PowerFactor Wet Chamber.
3rd Modification Performed: Removed PowerFactor Wetpipe Chamber, and installed PowerFactor Dry Pipe Chamber.
Setup became: TNT Manifold, PowerFactor Dry Chamber, and PowerFactor Waterbox.
Observations: I lost a little bottom end, picked up a LOT more mid pull, and good top. The nose of the ski felt a little heavier (because there is now quite a bit of water in the cooling jacket, cooling the exhaust). Overall though, this has been my favorite setup and what I am currently sticking with. I like the heavier nose feeling, as it lets the nose (in my opinion) fall into the setup wake easier, for then riding up it. The only tuning involved, is the amount of water spraying into the system at the Stinger end with the Flor Control Valve (no jet restrictions). I didn't rely on the temp strip, rather the "splash" test this time (like I was used to from years of previous PowerFactor use). The Dryer I ran the waterbox, the better it performed, however I splashed water on the waterbox, and played with the Flow Control Valve until the water would quickly evaporate off the box, but not quite boil (that's too hot).
Vid and Pic of the most recent setup with the Dry Pipe (I'll add to this if I can get someone to film some multi flips / spins for me):
Barrel Roll
Waterbox Conclusion: The PowerFactor Waterbox performed better, both on the PowerFactor system, and the TNT system. I know of two other local riders, whom have similar setups to mine who also had these same findings (sorry, not name dropping).
Exhaust System Conclusion: The PowerFactor Dry Pipe configuration is my favorite. Second would be the PowerFactor Wet Pipe configuration. Third on my list would be the TNT configuration. My 2 cents, after spending a LOT of Test-n-Tune time, and burning a LOT of race gas, I through in the towel on trying to make the TNT system perform as well as the PowerFactor system (either wet or dry). That said, if I was building a straight up Freeride / Cruiser machine that I wanted a good "all around" powerband on, I'd possibly consider running a TNT system again. But for what I enjoy, it's not for me...
Hope someone finds this post interesting
-Andrew
Last edited:
