US freestyle!

tom21

havin fun
Location
clearwater FL
its not lookin good fellas. the future looks to be more of the same. I am afraid to say it but if/when they ban 2 strokes completely I think it will get worse. the repairs on a water ingested 4 will put me out of the sport. if its gonna happen WE better make it happen now.
 

Odd Duck

Jet Vet
Location
DFW, TX
I think the biggest part of the problem is the combination of cost and steep learning curve/skill levels that it takes to even enter the sport, let alone successfully compete. Just think about it, anyone can swim, anyone can hit a golf ball, everyone drives a car, etc. The average person can get into those sports easily. They obviously aren't going to compete on the national or world level, but the widespread interest that gets the sport on TV is generated at the entry level.

Our entry level is at least 10 times as expensive as most sport's entry level costs.

Not to mention the skill required. Not just anyone can even get on a standup let alone do anything but ride in a straight line. How many of you have tried to get family members, neighbors, etc. up on a standup? Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. How can we expect to get the level of widespread interest generated when it is so difficult for the "average" person to even try our sport, let alone to get them interested enough to watch it on TV?

It's not that I want just anyone to be able to ride a standup, part of the appeal is being able to do something that not just anybody can do, but this aspect is part of what limits the appeal to the general public. Most people have never even tried to ride a standup and have no clue how difficult it is to do the tricks we all take for granted (even the most "simple" hood tricks, etc).

What's the cost to get into MX? A used entry level bike can be found easily for 2K and the average rider may never feel the need to do any mods. You can easily find a SN for 2K with some mods, but then almost everyone will want/need to make some mods if they want to progress in the sport. Not everyone is capable of wrenching on their ski and we all know how hard it is to find someone we trust to wrench on the ski.

So, we have a combination of things that limit the generation of widespread interest in the sport. How do we get past this combo? We need to somehow make the sport more accessible to the masses if we really expect sponsors to help out the competitors at the level of other televised sports.

Any ideas on this? We can't expect the manufacturers to sell their boats below cost, we can't go back and change all the boats already made to make them more ride ready, and a beginners level freestyle event would be even more boring to watch for most people.

Let's look at what they do for SX - put kids on identical bikes and stage quick races between the main features. Can we do an equivilant? Get a major sponsor to make the basic mods to a set of skis that travel to each comp? Not so good, it takes practice on a particular boat to be successful in competition. So, we're back to bigger money going in to entry level comp. again.

Anybody out there got any other ideas? I've tossed this around a lot, everytime one of these threads gets started, but I've not thought of any good solutions. I keep butting up against the combo of the high entry level cost and the very high skill levels that it takes to be successful at even the earliest level of comp.

I hate to be negative, but it's a tough combo to conquer. When we can resolve at least part of this problem, then we might have a chance of finding the widespread appeal that it takes to really grow the sport and get the wider exposure we all seem to crave for our sport.

So maybe we need to focus on the more basic entry level issues to find the larger solution we're looking for. What are your ideas on this? Anybody got a brainstorm how we can get more newbies in?

I think we also need to stop the war between standups and sitdowns. I see the sitdown rider as the closest equivilant to entry level as our sport has. How many of you first rode a sitdown, then got into standups looking for more challenge?:wave:

The sitdown rider may be OUR salvation! Treat them as such and we just might be able to find the widespread appeal that OUR sport needs.
 

Odd Duck

Jet Vet
Location
DFW, TX
Again, both sports with minimal entry level costs. Anybody can do it at the entry level. Everybody has a lawn mower, most everybody has at last one hand. Oh, and did you see the cup stacking that was on a while back? Talk about minimal investment cost.
 

Emm

skank
Location
Huntsville, AL
Again, both sports with minimal entry level costs. Anybody can do it at the entry level. Everybody has a lawn mower, most everybody has at last one hand.

yeah but devoting over an hour to paper, rock, scissors??? I'm pretty sure that didn't pull any huge audience numbers. They could have filmed at world finals and got a bigger audience.

Heck the only reason we watched it was because we had been consuming adult beverages :biggrin:
 

Odd Duck

Jet Vet
Location
DFW, TX
yeah but devoting over an hour to paper, rock, scissors??? I'm pretty sure that didn't pull any huge audience numbers. They could have filmed at world finals and got a bigger audience.

Heck the only reason we watched it was because we had been consuming adult beverages :biggrin:


I know, crazy isn't it? They had a frikkin hour of the cup stacking, too. I'd never even heard of it as a sport (would have NEVER occurred to me) and they had an HOUR of coverage! Kids, adults, singles, pairs, teams, etc, etc, etc.

But everyone knows how to play rock, paper, scissors, right? No equipment necessary and anyone can play. Sponsors (what sponsors did they have, Osteo-Biflex?) figure it will hold at least a minimum appeal to many, many people.

I understand the difficulty with getting people started in the sport of freestyle - cost, learning curve, etc. But to not be able to find anybody to put it on TV? When it's clearly an awesome sport, what gives with that? My only reason that I keep coming back to, is the limited fan base. We have to expand our appeal to more people. The sitdown crowd is a potential existing fan base that we need to start reaching on a grass roots level. Next time anyone sees a sitdowner that keeps watching them ride their standup, you should consider approaching them and talking. We usually wait to see if they approach us and I'm thinking that may be the wrong way to think. I know, I know, who wants to trust their precious boat to just any weekend idiot? But these sitdown riders could potentially be a source for the fan base we need to make our sport appeal to the SPONSORS.

I also think we need to get more MX and SX and AX and MX freestyle folks interested. These are people that are already into motorsports, already have some balance and skills in order to be able to ride a bike, do tricks, etc. They already have a fan base that we could tap into directly. I think the trip to Brazil for Travis's show has EXCELLENT potential to reach a lot of people. I can't wait to see what results from that once it's aired.
 
biggest problem in introducing our sport is that too many people associate sitdowns with the words "jetski" and "pwc". most people, when introduced to the stand up concept, cannot comprehend it becsause they have never really seen one. if they have their response is..."oh they still make those"

my 2cents
 

QJS

X-
Location
GONE
Parrdaddy- I admire your dedication and obvious passion for Freestyle we share this love.
In 17 years in the sport I have seen many changes the biggest being the cost. Just as an example we trained the rider and built the ski for the 1st British competitor to do a Flat water Roll in competition. That same year he went on to win the British Championships. His engine was stock cylinder, stock milled head, stock carbs, with a FP, reeds and a prop. He had footholds but the pole and hood were also stock. This was approx seven years ago which gives you an idea of how quickly things are changing. Incidentally the name of the guy was Alex Fielder, Jordan Fielders older brother. These changes have very little to do with riders or the sport in general, it’s because the governing body keeps changing the rules for a few individuals. Rules make it expensive-every year changes are made to class rules- this year aftermarket hulls- the goal posts keep moving. I know times change but this is what is pushing the cost up. Every time I build a ski for a competitor they want it to the max that class will allow, then later down the line have an issue with how much it is costing them.
Don’t get me wrong I’m all for a PRO class with anything goes, this acts as a shop window for our sport, however there has to be a cheaper alternative for those who simply cannot afford it.

Some of you are suggesting taking it to the surf; I don’t really see the difference. Yes a big wave will make a flip easier but it will be higher with 1000cc than with 701cc, so you are back to square 1.

Over here a few good friends of mine also didn’t like the way competitive Freestyle was going so took it on them to organise their own tour. This is called the Freestyle National Tour. The FNT is not affiliated to the governing bodies (IJSBA, JSRA) and therefore can make it’s own rules and class limits. Cost and fun are the two main factors, these are weekend events held at different locations around the UK. The AM class takes place on the Saturday and PRO on Sunday. Nobody cares how bad you are or how little you spend on your ski and there are always lots of people to help you out if need be. Prizes for the event are covered by sponsors such as ourselves, and can vary from a simple can of oil, upwards. The cost of the event itself is covered by entry fees and the generosity of the people running the lake where the event takes place.
This does nothing whatsoever to give you National/British ranking as it is not affiliated. However many people including Ant Burgess and Spencer Wells have used this as a stepping stone to bigger things. There are riders competing in this tour for experience that have every intention of working their way up to competing in the British Championships to gain a place at WF equally there are riders that want a little bit of fun.

Hope this inspires somebody.

Chris
 
W

wydopen

Guest
Some of you are suggesting taking it to the surf; I don’t really see the difference. Yes a big wave will make a flip easier but it will be higher with 1000cc than with 701cc, so you are back to square 1.

the whole point of a surf comp is getting away from the same old repetitive stuff..ie 10 backflips from each guy..in the surf there are endless possibilities..every air or turn is different cause every wave is different
 
One of the reasons I created the WFWA national tour was to solve many of the problems you have dicussed. Our 2007 tour spaned 10 differnet cities and looks to be expanded in 2008.

The short of it is most race events are for racers, not freestyle. Remember my background starts in racing, as is Rosie's, so I understand this -- Racers mainly fund these events (races). In the past every freestyler was a racer and was kind of a side act to fill lunch time. Did you know Malone was a nationally ranked standup rider and Rick Roy was a national racing champ in Canada?
 
the whole point of a surf comp is getting away from the same old repetitive stuff..ie 10 backflips from each guy..in the surf there are endless possibilities..every air or turn is different cause every wave is different

Did you just type that with a straight face? What wins a surf competition? It's going BIG and CLEAN on a handful of standard tricks. Backflips, Barrel rolls, reentries, hard carving, etc. The waves might always be different, but the tricks are the same. Winning freestyle is the exact same thing. You have to go BIG and CLEAN on a handful of standard tricks. The amplitude might be different, but it's basically the same deal. I'll give you that it can be much cheaper to be competitive in the surf, but they're both quite repetitive.
 

Scorn800

Ride for life
Location
North NJ
Did you just type that with a straight face? What wins a surf competition? It's going BIG and CLEAN on a handful of standard tricks. Backflips, Barrel rolls, reentries, hard carving, etc. The waves might always be different, but the tricks are the same. Winning freestyle is the exact same thing. You have to go BIG and CLEAN on a handful of standard tricks. The amplitude might be different, but it's basically the same deal. I'll give you that it can be much cheaper to be competitive in the surf, but they're both quite repetitive.

Excellent post. I agree

From what a saw in pro freestyle at the WF. The US has a aways to go.
In Qualifing Stoyer had a excellent run, Parr's was good, the ski clinic guys were trying some new stuff but all had problems in the finals. Team twangled needs to check themselves. I've seen better dudes at regional events.
 

RoyalFlush@PCB

Shootin' The Crap
Location
PCB
Team twangled needs to check themselves. I've seen better dudes at regional events.

:slaphappy:

The first Twangled dude did, what, like 8 nose stabs and that was about it.

Parr's motorless routine was more entertaining than his.

I really can't believe he considers himself a "Pro Freestyler".
 
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