Agreed no need to go bigger on the needle and seat than needed. For 25psi popoff I like the 2.0 n/s and 95g spring. That setting has worked for me on multiple carb tunes for different engines. Then adjust jetting to fit that particular engine.
 
I run a single restrictor jet (carbs drilled) so I try to get them (pop off) real close to each other.

Also - I'm going to guess the OP is rich by 15+ total points give or take.

115 (gold or bright zinc/chrome look) , 80 (black/dark) , 65 (shortest & silver) are springs that are wound with the end pointing "counter clockwise"
95 gram (silver stainless color) are wound with end pointing "clockwise"
 
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@fastgtfairlane @MTRHEAD @Quinc thank you for the knowledge and experience. My logic with the larger N/S and heavier spring was to achieve my same/similar popoff pressure while making it more difficult for the vibrations to shake that needle open. I have read many comments that the vibrations can cause the needle vibrate off the seat. The heavier spring will help with that. I am aware that the smallest N/S is capable of flowing enough fuel for almost any motor as the SBN manual claims.

Also, my jetting was based one pilot change at a time while using the low speed adjuster to confirm a lean low speed and/or too high of pop off. I finally came to 130 low being very good. I changed my mains from there using the same method until i got to 127.5, and i had to stop there because i had a pulse line pop off which siezed my motor. It left a nasty scar so I had it bored and it was improperly clearanced. So, this caused me to think i was lean seizing (nope, just poor clearance). BUT i didn't realize the clearance was poor so i kept upping the jets until the seizing stopped but obviously it never did. So i had it bored again. This time clearance is good, BUT on my first test ride after break in i noticed smoke emitting from my carbs. So, i checked my reeds and found them to be quite bent. I then installed these new VF3 reeds and Wax manifold since i was down there anyway. Upon firing up the ski on the stand after installing these items i found the issue of fuel leaking out of the venturis. Now i am here.

I hope that helps clear up why my jetting seems off. I never really got an opportunity to continue tuning.

Prior, i was using a stock ported intake (just opened the top of the intake to match the carbs). The prior reeds were some older dual stage setup from a "Race 05" Pro-tec race motor i had. So, i am aware my jetting will need to change. For now, i am just trying to stop the fuel from coming out of the venturi while idling on a stand. Once that is solved i can go back to really tuning. I do not believe that my mains being too big are causing this dribble. There should be almost no signal at the venturi when the blade is just cracked open, right?

I think either my needle is vibrating open, my seal is poor, or i just have a very high fuel pressure now due to a stronger pulse compared to the prior bad reeds. I am trying to solve the problem in that order, leaving the fuel pressure issue as my last resort.

I do want to know: is the orifice in the stock restrictor 0.030"? I read that in a different post. I am asking because if most people are saying to drill the stock restrictors and start with a #60 jet in the return and it may go up to #70 or #80. However, if 0.030" is 0.76mm, how could one 0.76mm restrictor in each carb cause a higher fuel pressure at the needle than one #70 (0.7mm) restrictor in the return line that each carb is now sharing? I can only imagine the fuel pressure dropping at the needle if the return restrictor is at least #80.

FYI i hope my writing does not come off argumentative. I love these types of conversations. I may seem argumentative because my brain is wired to learn by explaining my theory, and then being corrected or supported. It really helps the lightbulb go off!
 
This might be an unpopular opinion but to me the fuel pressure thing is over emphasized. Pressure at idle is very low, say 2psi, call it way high at 4psi. Your popoff pressure even at very low 18psi is much higher. The fuel pressure does not open the needle, it can't. The negative pressure in the diaphragm chamber acting on the area of the diaphragm is what opens the needle, the fuel pressure just gives it a little extra nudge. Seems like using a little higher popoff pressure should get you a very similar result as changing the fuel pressure.

If I were you I'd be checking the o-ring on the needle, I've had those go bad. Check with the carb fully assembled if you haven't already, I've had carbs that the little arm was a LITTLE bit high and it made the diaphragm slightly bind on the cover plate so it applied a little it of pressure on the lever so the popoff was lower with an assembled carb than a disassembled carb. If all of that checks out, go up with the spring rate and see if it helps.

Then you'll have to re-tune pretty much everything from scratch.

I kinda question people who say they have checked fuel pressure on freestyle skis, typically they describe it as something like x psi at idle and y psi at WOT. I've tried this on two skis, a glass freak with a 781 that had sbn46's unmodified except for the drilled returns, and a dvx with a php 898 with novi 48's. Watching the fuel pressure gauge at idle is no picknick but can be done. Anybody who says they've grabbed a handful of WOT on a freestyle ski and watched a fuel pressure gauge....well they're either full of it or magical.

I don't remember the numbers but I was surprised that the bigger motor with the novis needed a smaller return jet than the smaller motor with the 46's to get the fuel pressure within the suggested range. So the jet is not necessarily intuitive.
 
The stock 64x manifold has a crossover tube. Did you happen to close it before running it? If not, when you switched to the wax manifold that doesn't have a crossover, that will absolutely affect your jetting. That could be part of the issue for losing your tune and being too rich.
 
This might be an unpopular opinion but to me the fuel pressure thing is over emphasized. Pressure at idle is very low, say 2psi, call it way high at 4psi. Your popoff pressure even at very low 18psi is much higher. The fuel pressure does not open the needle, it can't. The negative pressure in the diaphragm chamber acting on the area of the diaphragm is what opens the needle, the fuel pressure just gives it a little extra nudge. Seems like using a little higher popoff pressure should get you a very similar result as changing the fuel pressure.

If I were you I'd be checking the o-ring on the needle, I've had those go bad. Check with the carb fully assembled if you haven't already, I've had carbs that the little arm was a LITTLE bit high and it made the diaphragm slightly bind on the cover plate so it applied a little it of pressure on the lever so the popoff was lower with an assembled carb than a disassembled carb. If all of that checks out, go up with the spring rate and see if it helps.

Then you'll have to re-tune pretty much everything from scratch.

I kinda question people who say they have checked fuel pressure on freestyle skis, typically they describe it as something like x psi at idle and y psi at WOT. I've tried this on two skis, a glass freak with a 781 that had sbn46's unmodified except for the drilled returns, and a dvx with a php 898 with novi 48's. Watching the fuel pressure gauge at idle is no picknick but can be done. Anybody who says they've grabbed a handful of WOT on a freestyle ski and watched a fuel pressure gauge....well they're either full of it or magical.

I don't remember the numbers but I was surprised that the bigger motor with the novis needed a smaller return jet than the smaller motor with the 46's to get the fuel pressure within the suggested range. So the jet is not necessarily intuitive.
I checked the pressure on my ski with the hood off and it strapped to a trailer. Easy to grab the throttle that way. Also the pressure you have is all relative to the jetting and popoff you're running as well. Changing a pilot or main jet can affect the fuel pressure as well.

The possible leaking oring has been mentioned a few times. It wasn't ever mentioned until op last post what manifold he was running before switching to the wax..
 
Location
dfw
Crossover manifolds do make idle to 1/4 throttle smoother. They will also require larger pilot jets and possibly larger main jets. I have always been able to get good response with 115G springs over a 2.0-2.3 N/S. If a carb cant open a 115G spring then its too big for the application. Pulse pumps are high volume/low pressure devices, managing pressure should not be needed until very light springs are used. Looking at the first post, his carb seems too rich to idle. I recommend a careful examination of the carbs and throttle plate alignment. Use a 115G spring, dont worry about pump side pressure, and be happy with the near perfect results!
 
@Storbeck what you say about fuel pressure relating to popoff makes complete sense to me. And thank you for the other bits of knowledge.

@fastgtfairlane @kevbo yes i did fill the crossover and shaped the epoxy to the form of the intake outlet. Sorry for leaving that bit out as well.

@waxhead glad to hear you think the 64x mani is not bad.

I was able to achieve 54 mph with this setup earlier this year, but with a Mach 2 pipe. I am convinced i would be faster if i had my current Hooker 10/16 on there ( i pitched it myself, it's actually more like 10/16.5 but i can't recall exactly). The prop i achieved 54mph with was some oem yamaha prop. Blaster 2 or raider? I believe that because when i switched to the Mod B pipe, i was at just barely 52mph. Then i switched the prop and was easily getting 53mph.

Anyways i will be installing a new n/s today hopefully (i have a newborn here lol). We will see what that does!
 
Alrighty so i tried a 2.0 NS and a 95 G spring, 135 pilot, 122.5 main. That still allowed a very very tiny amount of fuel out of the venturis. I don't think it would be enough to kill idle, but i still couldn't get it to constantly idle without turning up the idle screw enough such that the revs would take a long time to come down after a bit of throttle input. SO, i then tried a 2.0 and 115. This seems to have stopped the fuel out of the venturis, but i still get the same poor idle. I have been trying to use the adjusters as a diagnosing tool but i am not getting consistency from that method of diagnosing right now. It does seem like turning them below 1 turn helps, and backing them out makes it worse but i cannot be confident in that. I am going to throw a smaller pilot in there just to see what happens.

ok maybe i am fouling my plugs? I have a 32:1 mix in the tank right now because of my recent break in period. I think i may have been very slightly generous with the oil too, maybe closer to something like 30:1. Another odd thing is that after it seemingly loads up and dies, i cannot start it without a quick spray of starter spray... That would point to it actually not getting fuel. This is certainly confusing.

@MTRHEAD yes that pipe is super fast and it was really linear for me. Unfortunately i noticed the weld on the water jacket of the head pipe is cracked so i took it out. I will have it welded but have been using the B pipe to test other parts because of the easier mounting. Actually, all my mounting hardware for that Mach 2 is garbage. Do you know where i can still get all 4 bushings for that thing? Mcmaster?
 
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You’re getting closer. Keep going leaner. Also on pipe. Kawasaki 650 parts. The black rubber bushing and metal inserts are 650 exhaust parts.
 
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@MTRHEAD when you say keep going more lean, you mean pilot? Or do you mean main? And oh thank you for that tip! I'd love to talk more about your 60mph setups, as that is my goal some day.
 
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I would go lean until it can’t accelerate from zero or 1/8 idle. Read that link or the Mikuni manual. I still think you’re pig rich. Swap it around 115 L and 135 H (if you have the jets). Then try running from there
 
I can still see fuel running down the barrel of the carb from the venturi no matter what i do it seems. Has anyone here heard of using a gp1200 kidney plate to stop that from happening?
 
Update. I may have found my problem. My return restrictors are clogged. I was able to clear the rear carb out and i can blow through it with ease. The rear one was not as clogged in the first place. However the front carb i can barely squeek air through its restrictor while blowing as hard as i can. I tried compressed air to no avail. I will try some other things. We'll see what happens!

PS i figured this out in a weird way. I wanted to watch my returns in action. So i used my mouth on the pulse line (blow in/out rapidly) to act as a running engine. I was able to see drips of fuel flowing out of one of the carbs. But the other i could not get a drop out of. I verified it was not the pump by opening up the metering block, pulling out the NS and seeing fuel pump out of the inlet with each pulse i made with my mouth (this test went well in both carbs). That's what led me to think my return restrictor is clogged.
 

DylanS

Gorilla Smasher
Location
Lebanon Pa
Recently had a similar issue where small bits of plastic from a new gas tank were making their way past brand new inline filters and into the carbs. Too big to flow thru the incarb filter but occasionally a large piece would make it thru and clog my inline restrictor. Ski would start and idle great out of water but in you’d get about 15 seconds of response then that piece of debris would lodge itself into the return jet and the ski would get super rich. Would behave very similar to how a ski with exhaust leak does if you’ve experienced it.

When running my 927’s I would always use two check valves and gp800 kidney blocks to combat the fuel dribble. You can also cut your own valves out of a thicker fuel resistant plastic. Tried and true methods to combat that dribble.
Glad you got it figured out!
 
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