Other Wet layup composites, is carbon even worth it?

[Matt_E]

Damn, that ski is gonna be sick. Dibs on a ride

 

[shawn_NJ]

I built this vac setup for very reasonable and scored a NEW in box high CFM pump off ebay for stupid cheap. Its auto cycling and adjustable. It did had a small leak on one of the resin catches, but it still made some kick ass rideplates and I have done hull reinforcements with it. I made some ultra THIN infusion rideplates that were strong as a MFer!

 

[Cannibal]

Damn, does everyone have a vacuum pump setup at their house...lol. Or is this just the natural progression for the tinkering type?

 

[WFO Speedracer]

Damn, does everyone have a vacuum pump setup at their house...lol. Or is this just the natural progression for the tinkering type?

It depends on what you are doing really. IMHO for small stuff like ride plates, hull patches, footholds all you need is a pump and a catch can. The catch can or scrubber as they call it simply catches any resin pulled through the vacuum line and keeps it out of your expensive pump, I am using a paint cup off of a cheap paint gun filled with plastic dish scrubbers from Wally world . This works pretty well I use the paint cup liners then when the resin dries I pull the whole thing out and put it in the trash, you will also need plenty of spare vacuum line, once the resin gets in it ,the line going between the scrubber and the mold is toast. Gauges are nice to have but not totally necessary , same with vacuum actuated switches but this depends on what you are bagging. If you are laying up a hull however you need a contraption like his so your pump won't continuously run. Keep in mind the setup also depends on what type of resin you are using. Polyester or Vinyl ester will kick off fairly quickly plus you have much more control over the setup times so the pump won't have to run for long. You will need to use epoxy resin on your project or any carbon fiber project really,epoxy has a much better bond with carbon fiber than vinyl ester resins, Epoxy means a much longer setup time and the pump will run for a much longer time, the setup he has switches on and off automatically when needed as a vacuum needs to be pulled until the resin sets up. You can always buy the pump and slowly build a system like he has there, there are some good instructions on several wood working sites as they use these setups to bond wood veneers onto substrates.

 

[IS0LD0UT]

I built this vac setup for very reasonable and scored a NEW in box high CFM pump off ebay for stupid cheap. Its auto cycling and adjustable. It did had a small leak on one of the resin catches, but it still made some kick ass rideplates and I have done hull reinforcements with it. I made some ultra THIN infusion rideplates that were strong as a MFer!

How do you reinforce a hull with the vaccuum? Do you bag the whole ski?

 

[d_moss]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vodf...xt=C3c7c4d4ADOEgsToPDskLY2U-OtStOUV9uLWVNPkKq

Since I love to share...

This is the setup I am going to attempt to make. Need the nifty fittings they have though. The pump looks like the cheaper 120$ HF model. The rest of the parts look like they can be found at the hardware store. I bet if I try I can just rig up the bag connector fittings some how.

 

[IS0LD0UT]

Since I love to share...

This is the setup I am going to attempt to make. Need the nifty fittings they have though. The pump looks like the cheaper 120$ HF model. The rest of the parts look like they can be found at the hardware store. I bet if I try I can just rig up the bag connector fittings some how.

Thats a great tutorial. Love how the resin flows through the part.

 

[shawn_NJ]

How do you reinforce a hull with the vaccuum? Do you bag the whole ski?

Just the section you need to apply vac pressure too, using mastik (sp?) tape to seal the area off.

Once you have seen the results of a vac bagged part, you will NEVER wet lay without it. I suck at composites. I use WAY too much resin, and always had air bubbles....the vac setup pulls out the extra resin into the bleeder cloth and you end up with great parts that have ZERO air bubbles, and should never delaminate, even if you suck! LOL. When I was going to build my X2 hull (before I bought the Rickter and got lazy), I was playing around with resin infusion, and did a few of CF/Kevlar test panels that were stupid thin but survived repeated assaults with a 4lb deadblow hammer.

 

[Cannibal]

Great info. Good video tutorial as well.

This place has come interesting bagging materials. One is a couple bagging tubes from 30-36" that could be used to slip over an entire top or bottom deck when flanges are not available to seal to. You'd only have the two open ends to seal.

They also have a stretchable bagging material, no worries bout leaving extra bag to prevent bridging an having to re-position the bag. Here is a direct link to the bagging section of their site.

 

[WFO Speedracer]

Great info. Good video tutorial as well.

This place has come interesting bagging materials. One is a couple bagging tubes from 30-36" that could be used to slip over an entire top or bottom deck when flanges are not available to seal to. You'd only have the two open ends to seal.

They also have a stretchable bagging material, no worries bout leaving extra bag to prevent bridging an having to re-position the bag. Here is a direct link to the bagging section of their site.

Another trick a friend put me on to was using plastic mesh instead of bleeder cloth, you will pull more resin into the trap of course but you can actually watch the resin being pulled through the channels, if you are using polyester or vinyl ester you just pull the mesh out when you are done and it leaves a nice surface for secondary bonding like peel ply, if you are using epoxy resin it becomes a permanent part of the layup. So using this you can eleminate the peel ply and the bleeder cloth, two less things to have to worry about.I am using the knitted mesh 40%

http://www.mcmaster.com/#plastic-mesh-screens/=g0p3x7

 

[Cannibal]

Another trick a friend put me on to was using plastic mesh instead of bleeder cloth, you will pull more resin into the trap of course but you can actually watch the resin being pulled through the channels, if you are using polyester or vinyl ester you just pull the mesh out when you are done and it leaves a nice surface for secondary bonding like peel ply, if you are using epoxy resin it becomes a permanent part of the layup. So using this you can eleminate the peel ply and the bleeder cloth, two less things to have to worry about.I am using the knitted mesh 40%

http://www.mcmaster.com/#plastic-mesh-screens/=g0p3x7

Hmm, but won't that essentially leave voids in between the mesh that will hold excess resin? I know there are some smooth peel ply materials out there that leave a better finish, but finish doesn't really matter too much to me, anything will look better than the chop gun finish the factory SXR has.

Also, any benefits to using a core material in build up such as this Coremat?

 

[WFO Speedracer]

Hmm, but won't that essentially leave voids in between the mesh that will hold excess resin? I know there are some smooth peel ply materials out there that leave a better finish, but finish doesn't really matter too much to me, anything will look better than the chop gun finish the factory SXR has.

Also, any benefits to using a core material in build up such as this Coremat?

The last layup I did was on a set of tubbies using polyester, no voids that I could see, the coremat does add some strength as when soaked with resin it acts like a bunch of tiny I beams,it absorbs a lot of resin, not what you want if you are trying to keep the weight down, scored Divinycell would be a much better choice as a core material,for what you are doing I would probably skip the coremat.

 

[Waternut]

Ok I never really understood the catch can thing. What's the point of it? I understand its purpose but why is it needed in the first place unless you're doing some kind of resin infusion? The bleeder and breather cloth should work like a champ unless you poured buckets of resin on everything. Should always put an extra layer of breather under your vacuum port anyway.

This is the first I've ever heard of mesh screens. Bleeder and breather are cheaper than the mesh screen and the bleeder cloth is finely textured as well so when it's pulled off, the area is ready for secondary bonding as well. Does the screen allow uniform pressure like the breather cloth does? I'm confused with the benefit.

Not trying to be a jerk, just looking for clarification.

 

[WFO Speedracer]

Ok I never really understood the catch can thing. What's the point of it? I understand its purpose but why is it needed in the first place unless you're doing some kind of resin infusion? The bleeder and breather cloth should work like a champ unless you poured buckets of resin on everything. Should always put an extra layer of breather under your vacuum port anyway.

This is the first I've ever heard of mesh screens. Bleeder and breather are cheaper than the mesh screen and the bleeder cloth is finely textured as well so when it's pulled off, the area is ready for secondary bonding as well. Does the screen allow uniform pressure like the breather cloth does? I'm confused with the benefit.

Not trying to be a jerk, just looking for clarification.

The screen allows much more uniform pressure than the bleeder cloth does,as it is very thin, you also have the benefit of actually being able to see the laminate, you can actually watch the resin and air being pulled out of the layup. You know immediately if there is a problem. I already explained the purpose of the scrubber , I wouldn't ever pull a vacuum on a piece without using a scrubber, its just plain silly.

 

[Cannibal]

Catch can for a wet layup could be a good idea for beginners that might have more resin than the bleeder cloth can hold. Just safety to make sure NOTHING gets in your pump.

Also, I didn't think that Coremat was supposed to absorb much at all. I'll have to read up on it, might be a decent idea in something like Tubbies where you need to build thickness. It's supposed to be way lighter than something like glass mat, roving, or 1708 when wetted out.

 

[shawn_NJ]

Catch can for a wet layup could be a good idea for beginners that might have more resin than the bleeder cloth can hold. Just safety to make sure NOTHING gets in your pump.

Also, I didn't think that Coremat was supposed to absorb much at all. I'll have to read up on it, might be a decent idea in something like Tubbies where you need to build thickness. It's supposed to be way lighter than something like glass mat, roving, or 1708 when wetted out.

I used a coremat layer/ply when I was building my X2 mold, and coremat does have many good use cases... But the link below is a good reason why you would NOT want to use it on a set of tubbies!

http://www.x-h2o.com/threads/90513-Hull-Building-USS-ROOSKI&p=1090421&viewfull=1#post1090421

Coremat layer on the X2 mold. (Good use case for coremat, rapid thickness buildup opposed to a million layers of chopmat)

Coremat layer on the X2 mold.

 

[Cannibal]

Wow, thanks for that. Leave the coremat for the mold...check!


On another topic, anyone looking to build themselves a nice compact vacuum setup, check out these homemade setups.