Super Jet Wet plugs

Bedpost

Bedpost

I reek of neoprene
Location
Chico, CA / Portland, OR
OK, so I'm stumped. I Pulled my motor about 2 years ago to do a re-foam, Install footholds and reinforce.
http://www.x-h2o.com/threads/33447-Bedpost-s-Square

Now I Have everything back together, and It refuses to run.

Everything worked fine when I pulled the motor 2 years ago

It seems like I am getting the proper fuel to the motor, It has spark. but for some reason It only seems to fire with fresh clean brand new plugs. otherwise I get nothing. I already cut back the plug wires about an inch, put new caps on and checked the plug wire resistance and ground wire in the "box" going to the stator.

I took it to the lake the other day to mess with it on the ramp, and was able to get it to "run" with a brand new set of plugs. It wouldn't Idle and would only stay running (poorly at that) with about half throttle for about 30 seconds until i let off (didn't want to punch it all the way since i just had it tied up to the dock)

when i let off the throttle It died, and when i tried to restart it, it would fire and die like it wanted to run while i held the start button down with no throttle, but wouldn't run. when i let go of the start button it must have fouled the plugs, because they were wet when i pulled them and i couldn't get any more life out of it after that.

today i tried a little bit of starting fluid (after cranking it over and having wet plugs already). and nothing. Im leaning away from the fuel system since i would have expected it to fire once or twice, even though i know it might be gunked up a little from sitting for so long.

Also, sometimes i have to wiggle the brown and red wires where they clip into the "box" to get it to start turning over.

So what should i try next?
 
Dmac80sc

Dmac80sc

Site Supporter
Location
Here
I am no expert. But if you let the motor sit for two yrs did u clean out the carbs before you took it out to sit? I know maybe there is an issue there of something staying open or not sealed right and getting to much fuel hence make the plugs foul and flooding the motor? And you said you held the plugs in the boots up to the head and checked to see if you have spark? Any one that knows what they are talking about wanna chime in?
 
Y

Yamer-Jammer

Location
Mesa, AZ - Flagstaff, AZ - Covington, WA
I am no expert either, yet I love to put in my two cents: I always try to go back to the basics with issues like this... A combustion engine needs air, fuel, spark and compression. If you have spark and compression that leaves your fuel delivery system. How old is the gas that you are using?

If you have old gas I would siphon the old gas out and replace with new gas. If I recall correctly you can pull off the carb incoming fuel line and the return line, blow in the return line and it will push the old fuel out the incoming fuel line. Of coarse do that after the new gas has been put in the gas tank.

If your gas is good/new, I would agree that your carbs need to be gone through.

Also, it is my understanding that starting fluid for a 2 cycle is like kryptonite... WD40 is a lubricant and is highly combustable. I would recomend using WD40 as a starting agent going forward.
 
Bedpost

Bedpost

I reek of neoprene
Location
Chico, CA / Portland, OR
Yamer-Jammer said:
I am no expert either, yet I love to put in my two cents: I always try to go back to the basics with issues like this... A combustion engine needs air, fuel, spark and compression. If you have spark and compression that leaves your fuel delivery system. How old is the gas that you are using?

If you have old gas I would siphon the old gas out and replace with new gas. If I recall correctly you can pull off the carb incoming fuel line and the return line, blow in the return line and it will push the old fuel out the incoming fuel line. Of coarse do that after the new gas has been put in the gas tank.

If your gas is good/new, I would agree that your carbs need to be gone through.

Also, it is my understanding that starting fluid for a 2 cycle is like kryptonite... WD40 is a lubricant and is highly combustable. I would recomend using WD40 as a starting agent going forward.
Click to expand...

Its new gas as of a few weeks ago, (2gal 87) and i just topped it off with almost 3 gal of premium all 50:1 That would make sense though.

Also I should note that I put my hand over the carb to choke it out thinking if the reeds were screwed up for some reason i would get blow back through the carb, but I got a healthy feeling suction while cranking it and afterwards there was a small amount of fuel left in the carb. Also I smell fuel in the exhaust and when cranking it over with the plugs removed.

I understand how bad starting fluid is for a 2 stroke, but have you ever tried lighting wd40 on fire? the propellant will ignite, but not the fluid itself. I only used starting fluid after i cranked it over for some time so there was at least some lubrication in the cylinder. Thanks for the tip though.

I just checked earlier and It seems like I'm not getting spark. so I'm going to check the secondary winding of the coil/ wires from the plug caps.
 
Bedpost

Bedpost

I reek of neoprene
Location
Chico, CA / Portland, OR
a0bc34b2.jpg
 
Bedpost

Bedpost

I reek of neoprene
Location
Chico, CA / Portland, OR
So I just tested the "charge" coil (brown / white trace wire and ground) and got 352 ohms, seems OK. But when I checked the output I only got 21-24 VAC that's kinda low right?

2938e4d5.jpg


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M

Mike Matheson

Location
Seattle, Washington, United States
well first off your charge coil is out of spec, factory manual says 497.7-608.3 (@68*F)

2nd a spark pulse is not AC(its square wave-ish with a lot of noise and some miss-shaping due the inductance of the coil), so your not going to get a voltage reading off AC switch of a multimeter (you'd need an oscilloscope to check that) and even if you did the voltage going to the plug should be on the order of 30kV...

from the symptoms sounds like you coil is going and only giving you a weak at best spark.

also I's but some boots on those plug wires, I've shocked my self a few to many times and it isn't the best feeling in the world!
 
Bedpost

Bedpost

I reek of neoprene
Location
Chico, CA / Portland, OR
Mike Matheson said:
well first off your charge coil is out of spec, factory manual says 497.7-608.3 (@68*F)

2nd a spark pulse is not AC(its square wave-ish with a lot of noise and some miss-shaping due the inductance of the coil), so your not going to get a voltage reading off AC switch of a multimeter (you'd need an oscilloscope to check that) and even if you did the voltage going to the plug should be on the order of 30kV...

from the symptoms sounds like you coil is going and only giving you a weak at best spark.

also I's but some boots on those plug wires, I've shocked my self a few to many times and it isn't the best feeling in the world!
Click to expand...

Well, first off thanks for the reply!

I have been using this guide to figure out what I'm looking at:
http://www.x-h2o.com/threads/37800-Electrical-Ignition-System-trouble-shooting

I have a 6m6, so i assume I should use the 61x specs of 365 +- 10%
Is this right?

Also, are you talking about the ignition coil in the E-box or the pulser coil in the stator? I know the ignition coil puts out way too much voltage to test. But I was under the assumption that I should get 4-5 VAC when testing the pulser coil (red/white-ground) although i clearly have a digital meter, when it sounds like analog might be a better choice.

I just haven't put the plug boots back on yet after i tested the wires. another reason i know i was getting a decent amount of voltage across the wires was the healthy shock i got about a week ago from it, that now seems to be gone/ very weak.

I think your right about the coil going bad, If i had unlimited funds i would just swap it out. but i have about $200 to figure this out this season. and i don't want to get the wrong part. unless someone has any other ideas, I'll be getting a charge coil it sounds like though.
 
S

Screwy

Location
Marmora, nj
check all the connections from the start/stop box on handle bars, check the ground from battery to motor. i juat redid all of mine on my blaster after i had to do some beach side repairs. corrosion is fueled by electrical current. look for a service manual on here too. sounds like you might not have connected something right. i would back track all the connections and make sure their clean, dielectric grease if you friend in any marine application.
 
Bedpost

Bedpost

I reek of neoprene
Location
Chico, CA / Portland, OR
Screwy said:
check all the connections from the start/stop box on handle bars, check the ground from battery to motor. i juat redid all of mine on my blaster after i had to do some beach side repairs. corrosion is fueled by electrical current. look for a service manual on here too. sounds like you might not have connected something right. i would back track all the connections and make sure their clean, dielectric grease if you friend in any marine application.
Click to expand...

Mark44 said:
MSD enhancer? Do not use starting fluid.................

Mark44
Click to expand...

been through the Start stop already, but I will check again for the hell of it. wont disconnecting the black/white wires eliminate any issues that might cause though?

Ground to E-box is good, but I haven't checked from battery to motor.. I will check that as well.

I hope its just a loose wire, but I've honestly been through just about everything at this point. I got it started at one point earlier this summer even with the weak spark, so i know i had it 99.9% working at one point.

No Msd, All stock parts.

Im going to order another CDI just in case the one i got as a replacement was bunk as well, only thing i can think of.
 
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