WFO Speedracer
A lifetime ban is like a lifetime warranty !
- Location
- Alabama
Can you identify the glazing on these perhaps ?
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SXR What's the best way to run in a fresh 2 stroke motor
- Thread starter kawasaki9
- Start date
- Location
- Austin, Tx
the WaTeRhAwK
fryin' up a/m electrics..
- Location
- okc
Absolutely not saying that at all. However, your own uncanny knack to "play a game" makes it a more difficult for sure, as well as I'm quite sure the same reason you're so difficult to get a point across to regarding the working differences between the two types of oil. Just more very explainable, obvious, and very basic laws of physics you intentionally choose to ignore. Plain and simple. Honestly, without holding the cylinders in my hand and up to the light, as well as physically check them for wear, knowing how many hours of use each of them has, all I have to go by is wear patterns that are visible in one and not very visual as far as the pictures themselves go, in the other. Going by the pictures alone, and without knowing the hourly use difference between them, the wear patters I am able to make out in the first cylinder indicates that it has either the most use, and/or has had conventional oil ran through it, and the second cylinder looks hardly broken in at all, but again, that doesn't mean it's not "glazed" either. A break-in glaze happens when the peak points of the crosshatch lines have been smoothed down, and then act as a bearing with the synthetic oil that prevents the rings from cutting into and seating into the bore, like they're supposed to. The uneven wear patterns on the first cylinder can also indicate this, as well. So, going by the pictures alone, It's really difficult to tell. The second cylinder appears to have less wear, but that doesn't mean it hasn't glazed. A glaze doesn't necessarily mean a perfectly polished surface. If you take the peak of the crosshatch down by polishing them down, they will still be there, and the rings not seated into the bore like they're supposed to be, regardless. That's why engines, after heat cycle break-ins with convention oil, and then regularly run on full synthetics, typically last longer than those run regularly on conventional oils, because the heat and friction resistant filming strength of the synthetics will not allow the rings to cut into the bore and seat before the polishing effect takes place on the peaks of the crosshatch pattern. The main reason conventional oil is used for break in is because it's filming strength isn't anywhere near as resilient to heat and friction, and through heat cycles it will break down enough to allow the rings to cut past the peaks of the crosshatch pattern, and seat properly into the freshly honed lines of the bore.
It's really too very simple of a concept for someone as intelligent as yourself not to get. Seriously. I mean, I know you don't really think it matters enough to really "matter" and all, however, absolutely contrary to obviously your own belief, it really does bro. seriously.
Just look at it like this. The difference between the two oils during heat cycle break-in, and pretty much regular use can be somewhat synonymous to the difference bewteen polishing compound, and valve grinding or lapping compound.
Now, if you were treating the surface of a metal in order to polish it, which one would you use first, and why? It's the same reasons.
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Hmmm. No difference in compression increase, practically new after 250 gallons, superb performance (equal to or better than similarly sized PV motors).
I tear down my motors at the end of each season. This one had less wear and the most even compression increase (and kept it there) of all of them.
Tell me again why I shouldn't break it in on synthetic?
I appreciate what you're trying to tell me. But, I have actual empirical evidence in front of me that directly contradicts what you're saying.
While you're at it, tell us why most newer performance cars come with synthetic from the factory. (Don't tell me about four strokes are different, both need to seat rings)
I tear down my motors at the end of each season. This one had less wear and the most even compression increase (and kept it there) of all of them.
Tell me again why I shouldn't break it in on synthetic?
I appreciate what you're trying to tell me. But, I have actual empirical evidence in front of me that directly contradicts what you're saying.
While you're at it, tell us why most newer performance cars come with synthetic from the factory. (Don't tell me about four strokes are different, both need to seat rings)
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the WaTeRhAwK
fryin' up a/m electrics..
- Location
- okc
post #22. and #33.
I would trust "empirical" evidence from someone way more qualified than yourself, just to be on the safe side bro...lol Especially after it was explained to me a million different ways to sunday, and I still refused to accept it.
I would trust "empirical" evidence from someone way more qualified than yourself, just to be on the safe side bro...lol Especially after it was explained to me a million different ways to sunday, and I still refused to accept it.
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In other words, no matter what actual evidence was presented to you, you'd refuse to deviate from your position?
the WaTeRhAwK
fryin' up a/m electrics..
- Location
- okc
Based on what I know about the effective properties of both types of oil in an engine, absolutely ,sir.
Because, again, your "empirical" evidence, is only based on as much as you yourself are qualified to present as a factual base of comparison.
Absolutely, sir.
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Your views are set and aren't going to change no matter what is presented to you. We're done here.
PS: Since you like bringing up qualifications, just what are yours? Selling musical equipment? Storing watercraft on household appliances? :biggrin:
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Unpossible!!!!
the WaTeRhAwK
fryin' up a/m electrics..
- Location
- okc
sounds good :biggrin:
It get's kinda tiring banging your head against a brick wall, anyway...lol
Although, in as much as you refuse to believe the differences, I still find it difficult to believe that you can't understand them, nor believe them for that matter, based merely on your cylinders, alone. You're not even fully aware of what you're looking at right in front of you, and you STILL profess it's wrong..... :lmao:
:dunno:
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the WaTeRhAwK
fryin' up a/m electrics..
- Location
- okc
lol
wad!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
the WaTeRhAwK
fryin' up a/m electrics..
- Location
- okc
:biggrin: ...
the WaTeRhAwK
fryin' up a/m electrics..
- Location
- okc
Here it is in a nutshell:
Travis:
Curious of your opinion on this, Matt, but what's the point in using full synthetic oil with an extremely high filming strength, over conventional, high-ash content oil in the first place?
Matt:
Well, because a full-synthetic and super high filming strength oil is supposed to make an engine last longer, and run better.
Travis:
Ok, and what's the point in breaking one in to begin with?
Matt:
So, the rings will seat into the bore evenly, and the compression will come up to where it needs to be, so the engine will make it's nominal power output.
Travis:
So, since the full synthetic oil is supposed to make an engine last longer before needing a rebuild, wouldn't it make sense that the break-in period would take longer to complete with full-synth as opposed to conventional oil before regular running, since the full-synth oil makes it more difficult for the pistons to wear the bore down before needing a rebuild?
Matt:
I doubt it.
Travis:
Ok, well, since you "doubt it", here's "the rub down": The simple fact that full-synth oil allows an engine to last longer before needing a rebuild, is the same reason it will not allow rings to seat into the bore properly. It's high film strength will not break down enough through heat and friction to allow it to occur.
End of story
PS: You can "spout" all the crap you want about how you have your cylinders as "empirical" evidence to the contrary all you want, but if you weren't wrong about the subject, you wouldn't feel the need to run full-synthetic oil for the reasons you do, in the first place.
:biggrin:
You're welcome, sir.
Travis:
Curious of your opinion on this, Matt, but what's the point in using full synthetic oil with an extremely high filming strength, over conventional, high-ash content oil in the first place?
Matt:
Well, because a full-synthetic and super high filming strength oil is supposed to make an engine last longer, and run better.
Travis:
Ok, and what's the point in breaking one in to begin with?
Matt:
So, the rings will seat into the bore evenly, and the compression will come up to where it needs to be, so the engine will make it's nominal power output.
Travis:
So, since the full synthetic oil is supposed to make an engine last longer before needing a rebuild, wouldn't it make sense that the break-in period would take longer to complete with full-synth as opposed to conventional oil before regular running, since the full-synth oil makes it more difficult for the pistons to wear the bore down before needing a rebuild?
Matt:
I doubt it.
Travis:
Ok, well, since you "doubt it", here's "the rub down": The simple fact that full-synth oil allows an engine to last longer before needing a rebuild, is the same reason it will not allow rings to seat into the bore properly. It's high film strength will not break down enough through heat and friction to allow it to occur.
End of story
PS: You can "spout" all the crap you want about how you have your cylinders as "empirical" evidence to the contrary all you want, but if you weren't wrong about the subject, you wouldn't feel the need to run full-synthetic oil for the reasons you do, in the first place.
:biggrin:
You're welcome, sir.
h2odesperado
Pin it to win it
- Location
- Charlotte, NC
wait say high film strength, high ash content, and glazed one more time and I'll feerr suuure be convinced.
extra credit for if you can get wear pattern or crosshatch in there.
extra credit for if you can get wear pattern or crosshatch in there.
the WaTeRhAwK
fryin' up a/m electrics..
- Location
- okc
Can you say that again?.... the last few hundred repetitious combinations seemed to go right through...LOL
- Location
- Lake Havasu City, AZ USA
Wow, I'm all glazed and confused now...
the WaTeRhAwK
fryin' up a/m electrics..
- Location
- okc
Apparently you aren't alone...lol