Other Why are jetski engines so expensive?

[ncbrock]

Ive never really thought about it until now, but why are jetski engines (specifically yamaha's)? Really, think about it, a 2 stroke is SO simple, barely any moving parts, someone with little knowledge can understand and could probably build one. Its a tiny motor, and only 2 pistons. I just dont understand how they bring in 1k+. I just payed $850 for a complete 701. For $850 in vw world could get you a nice complete 16v i4 engine.
For the big dogs like a xscream 865 or something your looking at $7k or so for a 2 STROKE 2 CYLINDER ENGINEuppy_dog_eyes: Thats what me and my dad payed for this beast, a 331 stroker motor to be built with new components.

The only reason I can see engine being so expensive is maybe theres not that many of them out there, but thats about it.

 

[vrizi]

it's all about supply and demand

 

[baxt3r]

There aren't many of them out there and for me the price is going to keep one more on the shelf for quite some time. I understand that research and development are expensive and the costs must be recouped, but the prices I've seen are way out of reach for the average Joe. This isan expensive sport/hobby, no doubt, but I feel like the cost and minimal exposure keep things out of reach for people who enjoy it, like me.

 

[shawn_NJ]

What messes with my head is the fact that you can buy a sweet 20ft boat BRAND NEW.... for about the same price as a new highend freestyle STANDUP. LOL!

Good thing jetsking is so fun, because it makes ZERO sense financially.

 

[AZRIDER]

cranks are expensive, cases are cheap.........

 

[icecoled007]

Good thing jetsking is so fun, because it makes ZERO sense financially.

:lmao::lmao:

 

[Waternut]

Supply and demand have a lot to do with it. However, the average car engine that you buy for under $2k is used and probably been used for 10+ years. Fresh crate motors are a little more but even then they are completely stock for any decent price. A highly modified and tuned engine will cost a lot more.

The other thing to think about is you are paying a premium for massive power in a small lightweight package. A 1000cc engine is probably churning out at least 250-300hp (total guess since my big bore was dynoed at 145hp before I bought it and it's nothing compared to the 1000cc engines). A 5.8L V8 with comparable horsepower weighs around the 600-700lb range for just the long block and then needs another 200-300lbs for intake, exhaust, etc. Meanwhile the little 2 stroke motor weighs maybe 90 lbs and needs another 30-40lbs for intake, exhaust, etc. Lastly, a big car engine usually only spins at 4-6k rpms and that's being harsh on it. Our engines spin up to 9k rpms just about every time we jump. That extra inertia means that your tolerances and clearances need to be better which adds up quickly. If it's any consolation, Formula 1 engines have brought the weight of their 3.0L V8's to around 200lbs but spend $15-30 million every season on engines and rebuilds.

 

[SXR-FOREVER]

it doesn't help that OEM prices are so ridiculous..

new cases - $534.87
new crank - $1,081.46

add OEM seals...bedplates...flywheel cover...etc and your looking at 2k before you even get into whatever you want for the top end, labor for cases to be bored out, or whatever you want to do for electronics

 

[AZRIDER]

you can get brand new oem cranks for 910.00$ from x-scream I believe............

 

[kevbo]

Jetski and boats that we consume (except for some new AM hulls) are made in the Western hemisphere where everything is at least twice as expensive. Plus nobody can destroy good equipment like a jetski or dirtbike owner can. You have to either pay up for new or settle for SBT and used junk.

 

[badvinny]

I thought they were cheap! My bored and stroked KTM 613 would cost ~$6000 to build and still onlymakes ~75hp.

 

[baxt3r]

And how much of that $1k oem crank is profit? I'd bet a lot. Theres absolutely nothing wrong with profit. I just wonder how many more cranks or motors would be sold if they were affordable to more people. I would buy a couple 865s if they were I nthe $2,000 range.

 

[ncbrock]

I thought they were cheap! My bored and stroked KTM 613 would cost ~$6000 to build and still onlymakes ~75hp.

dirt bike engines are a little cheaper in comparison to jetski engines, yes i know its 1 cyl vs 2, but it has a tranny. Getting work done to a 2 stroke dirt bike is fairly cheap if you know the right people. I had a Tom Morgan Racing 285 (yz250) with carb\head mods and it was about $3000, still nothing compared to a jetski

 

[OCD Solutions]

I always wondered the same thing as I tow $30K worth of skis and gear down the interstate behind a $7K truck.

I just had the transmission rebuilt in my daily driver, (2002 Dodge Ram, 4.7l) and may need to refresh the engine soon as well and both combined will still be cheaper than what I paid for my XS S865.

 

[IceMan]

This is a Good thread!!

Jet ski engines are small compared to car engines V6 - V8 ....... no arguing that!!

BUT.......You are missing the whole point here!!

Its simple to get these big car motors to develop 200hp+, but a small 2 stroke 2 cylinder engine is not at all easy!!

The Question you should be asking is "How do you make or build a 2 stroke 2 cylinder engine that can develop 200hp+"....???

I do agree with you though, the prices are kinda of high when you compare them to other engine types; however, there are only 4 or 5 Jet Ski Engine Manufacturers in the WORLD right now!! Which means they control the market when it comes to pricing.........UNFORTUNATELY!!

 

[Waternut]

Let's look at it another way. Each aftermarket engine manufacturer makes that an engine that will make you happy. So it's rare to find two engines that identical in every way. The Xscream 865 top end kit is $3100. I'll see if I can break that cost down... First is the billet cylinder which had to be designed from the ground up but let's ignore that huge expense right now. A chunk of aluminum big enough to make a cylinder has to be a special order since it's large and an uncommon size. However, for reference, a 7.5" x 7.5" x 7.5" block of aluminum which is roughly half of what is needed to make a cylinder costs $555 at mcmaster carr. That's insanely expensive but let's assume $600 each for a bulk order of blocks large enough to make a cylinder. Then you need the custom head which will require another block about 1.5" thick and that'll be around $100. So $700 for two useless blocks of metal. Design time and CNC programming aside, you have to get them machined into the form you desire. I haven't dealt with machining very much but I've seen them in action and although they're very fast, something like this takes a long time and wouldn't be cheap. Maybe someone else can help me with this part and the return on recycling the metal chips... Moving on, you've got custom sleeves. An LA sleeve is about $90 each so $180 for the set. Custom forged pistons designed by xscream. A normal wiseco piston kit with 2 pistons and rings costs $365 for 84mm. Custom, low profile power valves to clear your b pipe. A normal power valve with the goods will probably cost around $200 so $400 for two. Custom cut domes, $150. Standard price of cylinder porting is around $300.

Ok quick recap...
Billet aluminum for cylinder - $600
Billet aluminum for head - $100
Sleeves - $180
Custom pistons with all hardware - $365
Custom power valves - $400
Custom domes - $150
Custom porting - $300
CNC machining - ????
Research and development - ????

So we're looking at a generic price of about $2100 for materials before machining and no R&D time to recoop. No storage fees, employees to pay, or facilities fees (water, electrical, rent, website, etc). When I think about it like this, it's amazing these guys are able to stay in business...

 

[d_moss]

I think about this same question all the time.

In the dsm world I bought my complete pretty clean 91 laser for $150 bucks with a blown timing belt. $3000 later its an 11 second car. My SJ was Pretty modded and I bought it used for $2500 and that was a good deal. And why the flip are cranks so expensive and hard to fix. wish they were put together more simply. On the other hand kawi stuff is cheap thats why I have a 550 swapped with a 650 in it. Built that boat for under 1000.

 

[speedysprocket]

Alright, I'll say it; nice Factory 5.

 

[yamanube]

Small market, small amount of companies doing the work = name your price, they will pay

 

[shanes]

I thought they were cheap! My bored and stroked KTM 613 would cost ~$6000 to build and still onlymakes ~75hp.

i was thinking the same , these guys have never raced bikes then they would think jet ski's where cheap :-}}}