Zero Elec power, new battery - FIXED

[Almost_nick]

Hey guys, going to keep this short and simple. Ski worked last week. Took out my bilge because I am going to install a new one later this summer. Removed it, caped the wires, and disconnected them from battery. Went to start, nothing, not a sound. Plain nothing.

Installed new battery (needed one anyway) still nothing. I noticed that with the new battery, usually there are some sparks when connecting the terminals, but I didn’t get any, even when I tried. I’m assuming this means there is no connection between the positive and negative somewhere in the ski. Any ideas?

 

[2lick]

I hope someone who actually knows what they are talking about chimes it... in the mean time, I'll get you started.

Electrical stuff sucks, experience helps, but coincidences also happen and make stuff even more confusing.
Sounds like grounding issues...
The sparks happen from some left over load or something drawing...

If it all happened after touching battery cables, perhaps they are breaking inside or where the lugs are connected. Wiggle them. Corrosion can often happen further back the wires. Does the bilge pump run through your ebox or right to battery? Does bilge work? You could have also ran into a bad relay at this point.

 

[Almost_nick]

Thanks 2lick,

Here are some more details. The bilge was wired to the battery, but i ripped it out because i am putting in a new one at a later date. I also disconnected all the wires that went to the bilge.

I just checked the new battery, good juice. W

The battery cables look good, points are clean I will double check the length of them for cracks and such.

One thing I didn’t check was the fuse in the E-Box.

Where is the relay located, how do I test it? Also, after some research, I should prob check the start switch...how do I test that?

 

[Carrera911]

The first thing I would check is the starter solenoid (relay) in the ebox. Do you have a volt meter? I’d put it in continuity or resistance mode and check for bad connections. Like between the battery ground and the ground in the ebox. That would tell you if you have a grounding issue. Same thing between the battery positive cable end and the other end in the ebox.

The solenoid is the round deal in this pic with the 2 large studs. Easiest way to test it is to connect the 2 small trigger wires on it to a battery and check you can hear it cycle.

The start and stop switches have disconnect plugs around the carb area. One is black, one is white. The one with the red and brown wire is the start pair. Use the multimeter on the same ohms or continuity setting and check connection between the 2 while pushing the start button. It should make the connection when you push the switch.

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[McDog]

I'd start with the fuse myself and dig deeper from there.

 

[Almost_nick]

Ok guys,

First thanks for all the suggestions! This is what I accomplished today.

1. Tested the resistance between the positive and negative cables where they would connect to the battery. I got some resistance.

2. Checked the fuse, it is in good condition and I even tested the resistance between both wire connections with the fuse removed and I got a spike in resistance when the “start” button is pressed.

3. Unplugged the snap connections where the start switch connects to the e-box. Good resistance when the start button is pressed.

I don’t know what all this means, but I assume that it probably means my start button/switch is good. That my battery cables are ok, and that it isn’t the fuse.

I was unable to get into my e-box. I have never done that before... is it only the 2 bolts on the sides that mount it to the ski, then the million screws to get inside it? Oh, also, I can’t get to the cables on the starter because of the exhaust but it looks pretty rusted. Do I have to take my exhaust off to get to the starter, and the cables that mount to it?

Before I start tearing up my ski, any other suggestions that you guys have or inputs?

Thanks a lot for the help

 

[Kpietro]

** This is the post I used to help with my electric issues. Mine ended up being a broke wire under one of the rubber boots the leads into the e-box***

You really need a multimeter to diagnose it correctly. If you are not even getting a click when you hit the button, then try the simple things first before you tear anything apart. The OEM plugs right outside the ebox for the S/S switch can get corroded internally make sure thats not it.
All these should be true in this order:
-12v at the battery while pressing the start button (meter red probe on + and black probe on -)
If you don't bad battery
-12v at the battery while pressing the start button (red probe on battery + and black probe on a CLEAN, BARE metal spot on the motor...not a bolt head,not a fitting...a CLEAN BARE spot of the casting of the motor even if you have to make a spot)
12v while pressing start button -->ok
immediate drop in voltage when the start button is pressed--->bad ground
-12v at both solenoid posts while pressing the start button (red probe on one post at a time, black probe on battery - )
While pushing the start button, if you get 12v on both posts and get no cranking then your problem is the starter or cable ends at the starter
If you get 12v on one post but not the other then your problem is in the S/S switch circuit.

S/S switch circuit is real easy to diagnose with the ebox apart. With the box open:

-There is a little red wire spliced into your battery cable that connects to your fuse holder. You should have 12v inside the side of the fuse holder that connects to that wire (red probe inside the fuse holder, black probe on the ground post that the starter relay is grounded to)
No 12V-->bad splice or connection to the battery cable, or bad ebox ground from stator
Have 12V-->ok
-The brown wire that connects to your starter solenoid, unplug this wire and test the end coming from your s/s switch (red probe on brown wire connector and black probe on ground post that the solenoid is grounded to)
While pressing the start button:
12v on brown wire coming from switch-->bad relay or relay ground
No 12V on brown wire-->your problem is in the S/S switch or any associated connection starting from the red wire spliced into your battery cable and ending at the brown wire that plugs into your solenoid.


If nothing simple solves it then follow that order, it will take everything out of the equation. As long as you are testing the connections correctly and there are no goofy or ghetto fab connections someone made or altered in your ski you'll find the problem.



Hope this helps!


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[Almost_nick]

Thanks for the help guys! Here is a update

1. Narrowed it down to the relay, there is 12 volts going to one side of the relay and 0 going to the other when the start button is pressed. I jumped the relay, and the starter turns. I also tested the switch by connecting the voltmeter to the plug in the ebox routing from the switch and I get a full 12 volts when the start button is pressed and it goes back to 0 when start button is released. So I’m 99% sure it’s the relay. I just ordered a new one, I will let you guys know if that does the trick. Also, getting the ebox off is a bitch with all the corrosion on the 2 bolts. I got them off, any tricks to keep that from happening again? Stainless steel?


Thanks!

 

[Harbor]

Thanks for the help guys! Here is a update

1. Narrowed it down to the relay, there is 12 volts going to one side of the relay and 0 going to the other when the start button is pressed. I jumped the relay, and the starter turns. I also tested the switch by connecting the voltmeter to the plug in the ebox routing from the switch and I get a full 12 volts when the start button is pressed and it goes back to 0 when start button is released. So I’m 99% sure it’s the relay. I just ordered a new one, I will let you guys know if that does the trick. Also, getting the ebox off is a bitch with all the corrosion on the 2 bolts. I got them off, any tricks to keep that from happening again? Stainless steel?


Thanks!

What brand relay did you order ?

 

[Almost_nick]

What brand relay did you order ?

I bought this one off amazon, I know it’s a knock off but it had pretty good reviews and, it’s only a relay.

Starter Relay Compatible with Yamaha Stroke 225CC HPDI 250CC OEM# 68V-8194A-00/ 68N-81940-00-00/ 68N-81940-00 https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00MWBCKSA/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_TX4ZCb90SHBM5

 

[SXIPro]

Some folks may chime in and say to use antisieze on the studs. Please don’t. It will do more harm than good in a wet environment. Your better off using marine grade grease.

 

[Th3 VVay]

Be careful with the cheap relays. I bought a cheapo off amazon just to test something and the first time I hit the start button it let the smoke out and welded shut. My starter was seized (which ultimately ended up being the problem) and it ended up melting the terminals on my brand new battery. Buy a clean used OEM or a new one and never worry about it again.

 

[2lick]

Thanks for the help guys! Here is a update

1. Narrowed it down to the relay, there is 12 volts going to one side of the relay and 0 going to the other when the start button is pressed. I jumped the relay, and the starter turns. I also tested the switch by connecting the voltmeter to the plug in the ebox routing from the switch and I get a full 12 volts when the start button is pressed and it goes back to 0 when start button is released. So I’m 99% sure it’s the relay. I just ordered a new one, I will let you guys know if that does the trick. Also, getting the ebox off is a bitch with all the corrosion on the 2 bolts. I got them off, any tricks to keep that from happening again? Stainless steel?


Thanks!

Sound like you found the issue!

My advise, cut the loss on the $10 relay you bought. Buy a known good OEM one ($39) from @JetManiac and get a NEW ebox gaskets ($18) while your at it. Dont put the ebox back together with that old gasket, it will fail and water will cost you more then the gasket. The ebox is indeed a pain to work on at times and you dont want to do the work twice. Relays fail, it happens. Fix it once and fix it right so you can ride all summer with no more issues.

 

[Carrera911]

I have to agree on the Amazon relay. I got 3 cranks out of mine before it would stick on every time. It wasn't that same model though, it was the gold round one that's sold everywhere. Not a good issue to have, especially if you're out riding with no tools.

 

[Almost_nick]

Hey guys!

Took all your advise and was able to get an OEM relay and gasket from Jetmaniac for a good price. I will install the new parts tomorrow after work, and I will let you guys know if that does the trick.

Since I was able to get both relays, I took some pictures for anyone who is interested in seeing how the knockoff compares, I found it interesting. Pretty close looking if you ask me but just enough of a difference to notice. Glad I went with the OEM.

OEM on the left or bottom with brown wire. knock off on the right or top with red wire. Definitely can tell the difference in bolts used, the OEM is much better quality. Also, the rubber on the Knock off stinks realllly bad, could tell the second I opened the box. Also, hard to tell but the OEM seems like it has a little more weight to it.

Thanks guys

 

[CD155MX]

Also, the rubber on the Knock off stinks realllly bad, could tell the second I opened the box.

Almost like when you walk into a Harbor Freight?

 

[SXIPro]

Almost like when you walk into a Harbor Freight?

My kids refer to that smell as "Toxic China"

 

[Almost_nick]

Ok thanks guys for all the help. Replaced the relay and that fixed it, now I just need to put everything back together!