Alternatives to foam

[E rok Wilbs]

I suggested that years ago, everyone made fun of me.

haha

a bladder, with a shrader ( tire fill) valve and a pressure guage.

hook it to air hose, fill it to 20 PSI or whatever.

you can check the guage to make sure its holding ( you have safe flotation if its holding Pressure)

and you can deflate/remove and reinforce or do whatever you need inside.

a truck innertube, or something similar, with a heavy canvas bag or something, or heavy rubber bag.

I honestly don't think that it's that far out of an idea. Trying to get a bladder or some sort of inner tube to fill in all the voids would be nearly impossible. Any sharp object petruding would eventually put a whole in them. If the tray area is pressurized then your saving weight and it will still be structurally sound. The only problem is getting it air tight, which honestly I don't see being that impossible of a task. Instead of caring a fire extinguisher your gonna need to have a can of "fix-a-flat". :biggthumpup:

 

[EvanB85]

I bet X2 Cartel has a good alternative to foam.

:sneaky:

 

[onesojourner]

getting it sealed tight is a big problem. thats why everyone has a soggy foam problem.

 

[Mouthfulloflake]

yes, I think a bladder would be neccesary, trying to make the hull itself hold even a couple of PSI would be hard enough in the garage, and damn nearly impossible after a ride I think.

a bladder in conjunction with drain plugs such as MARK44 runs to drain the water out would be ideal.

getting it sealed tight is a big problem. thats why everyone has a soggy foam problem.

 

[GDFL]

I don't think a bladder would work very well. Think about all the tubing and different voids that you'd have to fill.

 

[Mouthfulloflake]

drop a ballon down into a coke bottle, blow it up.
whats it shaped like?

:biggthumpup:

I don't think a bladder would work very well. Think about all the tubing and different voids that you'd have to fill.

 

[GDFL]

drop a ballon down into a coke bottle, blow it up.
whats it shaped like?

:biggthumpup:

Instead of a balloon, try a rubber bladder and throw 3 or 4 tubes in the coke bottle. Won't work. I can't find a good pic right now, but with exhaust and scuppers and dual cooling, etc it can look like spaghetti in there.

 

[Mouthfulloflake]

Oh well, since it wont work, I wont discuss my thoughts on it any further.

:biggrin:

Instead of a balloon, try a rubber bladder and throw 3 or 4 tubes in the coke bottle. Won't work. I can't find a good pic right now, but with exhaust and scuppers and dual cooling, etc it can look like spaghetti in there.

 

[kurtwolff]

I think a bladder of some type would work, and use drain plugs like a sitdown would have.

 

[cookerq62]

When I did my footholds and scupper before I sealed it off I used soap and water and blew into the holes to try and find leaks. Around the exhaust and bond line were real bad on the inside of the hull around the input shaft was bad too. If you kept the trey under pressure no water could get in.

 

[Matt_E]

If you keep it under pressure 100% of the time, yes. If you got leaks, you won' t hold pressure.

 

[Mouthfulloflake]

that just seems nearly impossible with the flexing and stuff the hull would go thru during riding it.

maybe it would be easier than it seems, but if its that easy to seal it, then whats wrong with foam? seal it good, foam it once and be done with it.

When I did my footholds and scupper before I sealed it off I used soap and water and blew into the holes to try and find leaks. Around the exhaust and bond line were real bad on the inside of the hull around the input shaft was bad too. If you kept the trey under pressure no water could get in.

 

[Mouthfulloflake]

haha, 12V air compressor with a bleed off valve.

:haha:

If you keep it under pressure 100% of the time, yes. If you got leaks, you won' t hold pressure.

 

[GDFL]

Oh well, since it wont work, I wont discuss my thoughts on it any further.

:biggrin:

A bladder will fill most of it, but I can't imagine that you'd get more than 80% or so of the volume filled. There are lots of corners and obstacles. Exhaust tube, steering tube, driveshaft tube, 1 syphon line, 1 or more cooling lines, possibly a scupper tube or two, footholds.....

 

[Mouthfulloflake]

Oh I know, just messing with you, a REALLY flexible bladder would conform around but also burst easily.

How much floation is really required to prevent the ski from sinking? and would the gunwales be strong enough if they were properly reinforced could they live without foam?

A bladder will fill most of it, but I can't imagine that you'd get more than 80% or so of the volume filled. There are lots of corners and obstacles. Exhaust tube, steering tube, driveshaft tube, 1 syphon line, 1 or more cooling lines, possibly a scupper tube or two, footholds.....

 

[DAG]

another thing to consider is the exhaust tubing running out the back with a big piece of plastic on top of it... if it does not melt/pop its going to be expanding/contracting pending your riding style just from the heat fluctuation's

 

[Mouthfulloflake]

let me rephrase.

How much support is needed, and is it really for flotation, or for strenght with thin glass hulls or what?

I think the stock config is both reasons. floatation and strength.

if you made the hull stronger, you would only need the flotation, and 80% of the area woud likely prevent the ski from sinking?

Oh I know, just messing with you, a REALLY flexible bladder would conform around but also burst easily.

How much floation is really required to prevent the ski from sinking? and would the gunwales be strong enough if they were properly reinforced could they live without foam?

 

[DAG]

How much floation is really required to prevent the ski from sinking? and would the gunwales be strong enough if they were properly reinforced could they live without foam?

I think the key is to not use anything and buy one of those deepsea co2 bladder bags that lift treasure from the sea.. attach it to the hood or pole and when you think its going to sink just pull the rip cord and your safe. problem solved.



/close thread

 

[Mouthfulloflake]

yeah, that would be cool too, IF you could pull it in time.
if you could automate it, even better.

But how much trouble to repack for the next deploy cycle?

are they one time use things?

I think the key is to not use anything and buy one of those deepsea co2 bladder bags that lift treasure from the sea.. attach it to the hood or pole and when you think its going to sink just pull the rip cord and your safe. problem solved.



/close thread

 

[Matt_E]

that just seems nearly impossible with the flexing and stuff the hull would go thru during riding it.

maybe it would be easier than it seems, but if its that easy to seal it, then whats wrong with foam? seal it good, foam it once and be done with it.

I am convinced it can be done. IMHO, you need to use flexible sealant (i.e., 5200) around the entire bondline, all through-hull fittings, and all threaded inserts.