Freestyle AM Freestyle Motor opinions PHP- Xscream - Dasa

onlyFX-1

onlyFX-1

Jace Forest...BRAP!
Location
Lake Travis,Texas
Xscream will sell the average person exactly what I was riding. That engine was not on the edge in the slightest.
I just ment the average person will probably not be forking over the cash to buy that setup
 
Ehlett

Ehlett

I just looked up the prices on the three motors being compared here. Dasa 10mm shortblock is $6200. Xscream 10mm is $7400. PHP is $4600. The PHP also comes with bedplates and hardware, not sure about the others.

I have the PHP 898 in my circus. I bought the first gen with the stock crank stroked 4mm and since then I have upgraded to the lightweight 4mm crank (which he now puts in all his motors) with the lightweight pistons. The difference is unbelievable, and the fact the 898 comes with that crank now is awesome.

Power delivery is smooth, linear and always there when you need it. It pulls hard right off idle and seems to keep pulling. With the 4mm stoke there is no case trenching required and no distaster plate, all in a low mainenance package. The support I have received after buying the engine has been second to none, and to me that is also very important.

When you look at price, support and performance there really is no better bang for your buck.
 
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sjetrider

sjetrider

615 Freeriders are addicted to T1 madness.
Location
in the 615 (Nashville)
skippythespy said:
I just looked up the prices on the three motors being compared here. Dasa 10mm shortblock is $6200. Xscream 10mm is $7400. PHP is $4600. The PHP also comes with bedplates and hardware, not sure about the others.

I have the PHP 898 in my circus. I bought the first gen with the stock crank stroked 4mm and since then I have upgraded to the lightweight 4mm crank (which he now puts in all his motors) with the lightweight pistons. The difference is unbelievable, and the fact the 898 comes with that crank now is awesome.

Power delivery is smooth, linear and always there when you need it. It pulls hard right off idle and seems to keep pulling. With the 4mm stoke there is no case trenching required and no distaster plate, all in a low mainenance package. The support I have received after buying the engine has been second to none, and to me that is also very important.

When you look at price, support and performance there really is no better bang for your buck.
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that Dasa price is not accurate, dealers can do MUCH Better for you. Just to be fair. Not sure if Xscream is sticking to that CRAZY $7400 price or not and I dont think they really have dealers so you would have to check with them.
Agreed the PHP is cheaper, but its new and not time tested with the new single ring pistons and lightweight cranks (both are great ideas imo) but that does not make them tested or effective as compared to the Dasa 10mm.
 
jeckert

jeckert

Going backwards
Location
Chicago
One thing to take into consideration is that although there are some torque and HP gains....the reliability factor goes down with a 10mil crank due to the critical rod angle...maybe not a factor if you are competing at the world finals. Or if you used a 133 long rod like my 'old 828 cast Lamey motor...you'd be buying yourself some longevity.

The PHP motor minimizes that rod angle by using a 4mm crank, thus increasing the longevity of the motor. The new 898 is unreal, big difference from the old php 898.

Tuning is HUGE on all of these motors so to get a solid answer on which motor is best might be kinda difficult...my 'ol XS 1200 was nothing like Parr's 1200 and we had the exact same set up down to the pump!...the difference was that Pat tuned Parr's boat.

I will also say that being one who has competed with all of these motor manufactors Pat from XS and Zack from PHP build some solid motors; you can't go wrong with either...Dasa has yet to prove themselves, although they have been around longer than anyone else, they are HIT or MISS...guess that has worked out in Zack's and Pat's favor when these former dasa guys buy another motor. Although I understand that in the past year or two they have been more successful in their engine building...less ccomplaints/ happier dasa customers!
 
sjetrider

sjetrider

615 Freeriders are addicted to T1 madness.
Location
in the 615 (Nashville)
jeckert said:
One thing to take into consideration is that although there are some torque and HP gains....the reliability factor goes down with a 10mil crank due to the critical rod angle...maybe not a factor if you are competing at the world finals. Or if you used a 133 long rod like my 'old 828 cast Lamey motor...you'd be buying yourself some longevity.

The PHP motor minimizes that rod angle by using a 4mm crank, thus increasing the longevity of the motor. The new 898 is unreal, big difference from the old php 898.

Tuning is HUGE on all of these motors so to get a solid answer on which motor is best might be kinda difficult...my 'ol XS 1200 was nothing like Parr's 1200 and we had the exact same set up down to the pump!...the difference was that Pat tuned Parr's boat.

I will also say that being one who has competed with all of these motor manufactors Pat from XS and Zack from PHP build some solid motors; you can't go wrong with either...Dasa has yet to prove themselves, although they have been around longer than anyone else, they are HIT or MISS...guess that has worked out in Zack's and Pat's favor when these former dasa guys buy another motor. Although I understand that in the past year or two they have been more successful in their engine building...less ccomplaints/ happier dasa customers!
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I was hoping you would chime in Joe. I knew you had riden the PHP recently. But was not sure if you had riden the XS900 or Dasa 900.
I agree with the rod angle statement but these 10mil cranks are all runnin the longer KAWI style rods to help the rod angle. While that is a concern you have the oposite issue with the PHP, LARGE AREA pistons under high compression that tend to put more stress on a crank as well as MORE stress on the wrist pins. The longevity or reliablity equal out IMO. While a 5 port aloows more (much needed) air flow the 7 port allows more equal ring surface and less oportunity to hang a ring.
There are good and bad in both scenarios IMO.
My question is to, which is capable of more power? PHP and xscream hand porting has got to be better than the DASA machine porting but for the cost difference I can eliminate Xscream (which I think is probably the best over all unfortunately). So DASA 10mil 7 port which IMO is proven reliabilty wise but lacks the attention of hand porting to maximize performance. Or PHP which has the hand porting attention and the cool new lightweight billet T-Bone crank BUT is unproven thus far as the piston (single ring design) and the new to this industry cranks are NEW and have not yet had time to prove themselves as reliable. All great ideas for sure but lots of ?????????????.

I do look forward to the outcome of the PHP and sincerely hope they are the new, proven power and longevity choice of the future. MAJOR props to PHP for going out there and building a new design at a VERY reasonable cost.
 
sneds

sneds

Location
Wasaga Beach
I have ridden Skippythespy's PHP898 before and after the lightweight crank install and there is a huge difference in performance. With the lightweight crank installed, the 898 is an impressive motor. PHP also makes a 10mm lightweight crank and I can't wait to get one in my Dasa 1100.
 
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KTM434

KTM434

Jamie FN Hickey
Location
Palm Coast FL
Lightweight single ring pistons are nothing new, they are designed for max power and competition use. 2 rings have more drag but they help to soak heat from the piston crown and they seal a little better. Single rings have less drag and less weight for more power output and allow higher RPM but do have a little more blowby (minor) which can burn off some oil (lubrication) from the cylinder wall/piston. PHP uses Nikasil plated cylinder walls which a hard plating that lowers friction and rebuild costs/maintenance needs. I'll say ive never tested any of these engines personally. I'd look at the price first and also judge the comments of Zack helping his customers and supporting his products. Between the nikisil plating, the lightweight stroker crank, and the lightweight pistons from a knowledgable engine builder at a price that's 2/3 to nearly half the cost of the competitors listed I really think its a no brainer. Let the tuning get you to the next level if necessary. Seems like most people that mentioned a lack of power hadn't tried the lightweight crank or pistons. Just an outsider looking in... That's still more $$ than I want to spend and more power than I need for my riding.
 
sjetrider

sjetrider

615 Freeriders are addicted to T1 madness.
Location
in the 615 (Nashville)
KTM434 said:
Lightweight single ring pistons are nothing new, they are designed for max power and competition use. 2 rings have more drag but they help to soak heat from the piston crown and they seal a little better. Single rings have less drag and less weight for more power output and allow higher RPM but do have a little more blowby (minor) which can burn off some oil (lubrication) from the cylinder wall/piston. PHP uses Nikasil plated cylinder walls which a hard plating that lowers friction and rebuild costs/maintenance needs. I'll say ive never tested any of these engines personally. I'd look at the price first and also judge the comments of Zack helping his customers and supporting his products. Between the nikisil plating, the lightweight stroker crank, and the lightweight pistons from a knowledgable engine builder at a price that's 2/3 to nearly half the cost of the competitors listed I really think its a no brainer. Let the tuning get you to the next level if necessary. Seems like most people that mentioned a lack of power hadn't tried the lightweight crank or pistons. Just an outsider looking in... That's still more $$ than I want to spend and more power than I need for my riding.
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Single rings are NOT new at all but ARE NEW in freestyle jetski biz where water ingestion plays a big roll. Not sure that is an issue but NONE of US are sure it is not are we?
nikelsil is awesome in some circomstances but is does disable some should you hang a ring in one of the giant 5 ports as you have to send them off to be re done instead of simply bore and or hone and go. Just how my mind is working does not make it correct, pricing differences on the PHP and the DASA are misleading above, I did not pay near that $6200 for the 900cc. Work with a dealer such as 615 Freeride and you can get much better pricing or Thrust for that matter offers them at I beleive $5500? Dont quote me on that but I beleive I saw that posted somewhere.

regardless I love what PHP is doing and I definately hope this is the next best thing, I am just not ready to try it, based on feedback from many off of these threads and some info in these threads I am choosing to wait and see how his new stuff holds up and produces. I wanted to try it but I have to think about resale and value with this build as well as the type of power I like. Linear can mean alot of things but I am more of a light switch power kinda guy lol.
 
zeski25

zeski25

Location
Palm Beach, Fl
I have owned my Dasa 900 for nearly two years now and couldn't be happier, still on it's 85mm bore from Dasa. Plenty of power, reliability, and support when needed from Kyle at Dasa.
I would recommend calling all the companies and going with what feels right.

Chris
 
wispy

wispy

Location
canada
I called xscream and the xs900rr which is the motor jace was riding will cost about $2000 over the $7400 price of the xs900r. Clearly the rr is a great motor but that is alooot of money, if your competing and you want to win at all costs i guess that is a solid option though. Just thought people should know the routine that won was not on a $7400 motor, not trying to take anything away from jace i just know some people base their purchases off seeing what has been done on the motor and dont want them to be mistaken. Ryan erskine, luke stocks and eli kemnitz runs were all done witb the 900r i believe.
 
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wispy

wispy

Location
canada
subhard said:
And in case anyone was curious:

"Our SS900 complete tuned engine package is $12,500 without the MSD Enhancer."-xscream
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that would include the carbs, intake, pipe, starter, bendix, etc etc. right? still seems pricey even with all of that.

I wont deny xmetal makes some great stuff but from my personal experience ive never gotten a very good vibe when dealing with them or talking to them on the phone, last time i called i wasnt even sure it was xmetal because they just answered saying hi... just my personal opinion. Ive dealt with Thrust and zack at php alot and they couldn't have been nicer and more helpful, after dealing with their level of customer service it makes it hard to buy from anywhere else no matter how good the product may be.
 
clouse22

clouse22

BDB Kustomz
Site Supporter
Location
Lake Orion, MI
i couldnt be happier with my xscream ss 865 and the customer service i have received from xscream. I bought my motor used off of a member here on the forum. contacted xscream for help with specs and what i would need to be up and running using things I had. Got a response right away. They went above and beyond to make sure I was taken care of (jetting, cooling diagram, tl settings, prop, nozzle size). I was very impressed, especially since i did not buy directly from them.

i have also met and talked with zach from PHP. Great guy, very easy to talk to.

Cannot comment on Dasa or other.

Hope this helps,
Bobby
 
subhard

subhard

TITS OR GTFO
Location
anchorage ak
Matt_E said:
I am not on the up and up on XSCream pricing, but you're joking, right?
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Package long block includes OEM quality starter, bendix, flywheel, front cover, bed plates, Prok Filters or OEM flame arrestors and spark plugs.

Includes:
XScream SS900 Long Block (Billet 7 Port Cylinder)
XSR 46mm Carb Pair
Boyesen Intake System with RAD Valves and XScream Modifications
Factory B-Pipe with XScream Port Work and Stinger Mod to Limited Chamber
 
C

ChrisFiore15

Location
Trumbull CT
wispy said:
I called xscream and the xs900rr which is the motor jace was riding will cost about $2000 over the $7400 price of the xs900r. Clearly the rr is a great motor but that is alooot of money, if your competing and you want to win at all costs i guess that is a solid option though. Just thought people should know the routine that won was not on a $7400 motor, not trying to take anything away from jace i just know some people base their purchases off seeing what has been done on the motor and dont want them to be mistaken. Ryan erskine, luke stocks and eli kemnitz runs were all done witb the 900r i believe.
Click to expand...

Curious.. what is the difference between the RR and the R?
 
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