Antigravity Batteries

Citizen

Citizen

Location
Coeur D' Alene, ID
So I have been using these batteries for 2 years now due to not really having another option due to my motor setup(XS 1200rr). Specifically the 1601 https://antigravitybatteries.com/products/starter-batteries/small-case/ag-1601/ (I have tried various other cheaper options and they are either too low CCA or too low Amp hour to be viable for the motor and the space available in my ski)

I just purchased my 4th battery at $280 a pop. Even though they have blacklisted me off their warranty service now (though I only was able to get partial warranty replacements). They seem to be lasting about 6 months before they decide to give up the ghost and start to go into thermal meltdown mode.

I have been religious about always pulling my battery after every ride and topping it off using the suggested charger by AG, and then topping it off again before I go ride again - https://antigravitybatteries.com/products/accessories/battery/chargers/optimate-tm-291/

I seal the side seam and the posts to make sure no water is able to get in.

I am careful to not crank once the battery sounds like it is getting low (why they have not put a Low voltage disconnect on these things I will never understand)

Yet I am still blowing these things up.

In the interest of not spending $600 a year on batteries I upgraded to a charger that I have read is better for these batteries, while expensive I am hoping it saves me money in the long run (i also plan on getting into racing drones so this will pull double duty for that hobby.)
https://www.progressiverc.com/prc-signature-series-sidekick-106-206b-350w-combo.html

I have also been trying to find a Low Voltage Protector Disconnect that will handle 500 CCA so if my battery drops below 10.5v or so it just wont turn over. But not having much luck there, anyone else looked or found anything that would work?

Any other tips or tricks I am missing to help keep this battery alive for more than half a year? I am hoping this charger is the answer but open to other ideas.
 
R

ridetrp

Location
nj
First off. I can save you tons of money on one. And it is better to purchase through a dealer/distributor and have them submit the claim. However your not alone. I have 10 or so bad ones but you should be getting more than 6 months out of them. You need an rc car style charger that digitally shows you the amps coming in and out.

Have you ever seen one split apart? It's pretty poopty quality.

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Citizen

Citizen

Location
Coeur D' Alene, ID
[QUOTE}I have seen guys that run a lcd volt meter on there hoods or directly on the battery. [/QUOTE]

Not a bad idea, looking for a decent waterproof one

ridetrp said:
First off. I can save you tons of money on one. And it is better to purchase through a dealer/distributor and have them submit the claim. However your not alone. I have 10 or so bad ones but you should be getting more than 6 months out of them. You need an rc car style charger that digitally shows you the amps coming in and out.

Have you ever seen one split apart? It's pretty poopty quality.

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Good to know regarding dealing with warranty through dealer/dist. I agree with the more than 6 months, i hear from people and about people getting years out of their 1601's. Most of them seem to run the charger I just bought so hopefully I will get better mileage out of this one. Ff you want to PM me a price I will keep you in mind if I end up needing another!

I have pulled one apart, was not impressed at all! But not spoiled for choices with that form factor and CCA.
 
SteveC

SteveC

Location
West MI
Has anyone measured what their starter actually draws when starting? It is certainly not 400 amps. Ultimately, I suspect something with far less CCA margin would start just fine. Think like 20A~40A. Total energy storage then dictates ride time, which it’d be interesting to hear “time riding before having to charge” type info, from anyone who has it.
 
Citizen

Citizen

Location
Coeur D' Alene, ID
SteveC said:
Has anyone measured what their starter actually draws when starting? It is certainly not 400 amps. Ultimately, I suspect something with far less CCA margin would start just fine. Think like 20A~40A. Total energy storage then dictates ride time, which it’d be interesting to hear “time riding before having to charge” type info, from anyone who has it.
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I know a 240cca lithium will not turn over my 220psi 1200, so somewhere between there and 480cca. I would guess 350cca+ would be plenty. I would guess i get 30-40 starts out of a 1601, this is running TL. Only time I really have run into amp hour issues is when i have to turn it over a lot to say get water out etc.

SteveC said:
Ps: I’m likely going to move to EarthX batteries... just haven’t made it happen yet. Lots of built in protections in the “12A” model.

https://earthxbatteries.com/shop/etx12a

Good enough for experimental aircraft likely means good enough for me.
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Seems like i have looked at them in the past and they didnt have a form factor with high enough CCA.
 
SteveC

SteveC

Location
West MI
Citizen said:
From their Warranty FAQ

- Immersion in liquid. Not covered for use in a stand up jet ski.
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Yes, but any Li-based battery cannot be “immersed”, as that’s a potential fire hazard. I don’t know if being in a hull counts as being immersed.

EDIT: I get it now; that’s their exact text. Either way, I’m likely going to risk it just because of all the negative news re: antigravity batteries.
 
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SteveC

SteveC

Location
West MI
Citizen said:
I know a 240cca lithium will not turn over my 220psi 1200, so somewhere between there and 480cca. I would guess 350cca+ would be plenty.
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Understood. My thought was that the stock SJ wire from battery to starter (through a pretty small solenoid) isn’t big enough to sustain 400A. As such, the actual current draw cannot be 400A. I’ll have to check again what size the wire is...
 
zzylstra

zzylstra

Location
Valley Springs, CA
Antigravity makes a Bluetooth unit that mounts near your battery inline, you can use an app on your phone to stay on top of the voltage. I usually get 2 full years out of mine, using the lowest amp AG charger. I’m usually not to religious on checking voltages during charging it usually ends up shutting down at 14.4. Another key point is your ignition, MSD from what I can tell isn’t the most battery friendly system. It uses tons of juice when running, and when it’s not spot on tuned a ton on startup. I don’t think I have ever seen below 12.5v on my AG’s after a full day of riding (10 gallons)


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Harbor

Harbor

Location
Stockton
SteveC said:
Understood. My thought was that the stock SJ wire from battery to starter (through a pretty small solenoid) isn’t big enough to sustain 400A. As such, the actual current draw cannot be 400A. I’ll have to check again what size the wire is...
Click to expand...

FWIW My 1200 dasa at 225 psi has a starter current draw of 180 amps with new cables and new OE starter.... my old starter I built from 2 starters Drew 260 cranking amps.....

OP how many times do you start the engine between charges and how many times are you cranking it getting water out...

My 16 cell anti’s are lasting.... I start about 10 times per ride then charge, battery still cranks fast... also it’s up high not siting on water and not getting spanked/shocked on landings with it on engine bay floor... not sure if any of this helps you...
 
Citizen

Citizen

Location
Coeur D' Alene, ID
CARBONX2 said:
http://www.poweroad.com/productmore.aspx?ClassId=38&Unid=14
They state them as waterproof, it has a LED scale to show the charge level, just press the button to see it. I am running the 20L on my 1200
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Looks like a good battery, does not appear to be sold in the states however.

zzylstra said:
Antigravity makes a Bluetooth unit that mounts near your battery inline, you can use an app on your phone to stay on top of the voltage. I usually get 2 full years out of mine, using the lowest amp AG charger. I’m usually not to religious on checking voltages during charging it usually ends up shutting down at 14.4. Another key point is your ignition, MSD from what I can tell isn’t the most battery friendly system. It uses tons of juice when running, and when it’s not spot on tuned a ton on startup. I don’t think I have ever seen below 12.5v on my AG’s after a full day of riding (10 gallons)


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Awesome, just ordered one. thanks man. I have not touched the TL system since it was setup from XS, not sure what if any tuning can be done on them as far as startup power usage? What amp do you charge at? From what I've read, Life 4s 5 amp seems to be standard?
 
Citizen

Citizen

Location
Coeur D' Alene, ID
Harbor said:
FWIW My 1200 dasa at 225 psi has a starter current draw of 180 amps with new cables and new OE starter.... my old starter I built from 2 starters Drew 260 cranking amps.....

OP how many times do you start the engine between charges and how many times are you cranking it getting water out...

My 16 cell anti’s are lasting.... I start about 10 times per ride then charge, battery still cranks fast... also it’s up high not siting on water and not getting spanked/shocked on landings with it on engine bay floor... not sure if any of this helps you...
Click to expand...

I will have to check my draw, I am still running the OEM starter installed from XS back in 2013, I do have a fresh JM rebuild sitting on the shelf though. I would guess on a average day of riding ill start the motor maybe 15-20x tops, I very very rarely get water in it, have only had to pull plugs twice to blow water out so that is not a normal scenario. When I did i'd guess i turned it over for 5-8 seconds, then let it sit a second and turn over again. Maybe a minute total.

Mine is rear left of engine bay, it does have good cushion on all sides and i strap it well so there is no bouncing around, but it does get submersed from time to time.
 
zzylstra

zzylstra

Location
Valley Springs, CA
Citizen said:
Looks like a good battery, does not appear to be sold in the states however.



Awesome, just ordered one. thanks man. I have not touched the TL system since it was setup from XS, not sure what if any tuning can be done on them as far as startup power usage? What amp do you charge at? From what I've read, Life 4s 5 amp seems to be standard?
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I doubt that’s your issue you would notice it. Too much timing advance in the wee rpms on your curve will increase the cranking amps required, my AG charger is about 5 years old, I want to say it was 2 or 3 amps, all it has is a single light that turns red or green


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zzylstra

zzylstra

Location
Valley Springs, CA
Check bendix bushings, engagement, and condition of the bendix. Any and all moving part while starting has an effect on the battery life, xs1200 is probably asking for most if not all out of that battery so everything down the line of current and rotation needs to be working flawlessly


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