Other ATP FLAME anf EPIC PROBLEMS

[Tkmww]

X2, Scott is a solid guy and a very good friend with a big heart. Anyone that has ever met him can probably recall a few times where he has helped them or someone else out so it's great to be able to return the favor for once. We were joking on the weekend that the Florida crew has Fred as their Guru and we have Scott, lol.

Yep, I told Fred him and Scott need to write a book about standups...a lot of knowledge in those two brains!

 

[Matt_E]

I just wonder why there is no discussion on setting "cranking timing". No edit cables?

What is OEM "cranking timing"?
What is Enhancer "cranking timing"?
What is T/L "cranking timing"? (I notice it's has two settings...me thinks)
What happen when there is to much timing at cranking?
What happen when there is to little timing at cranking?

At cranking, how much cylinder pressure is caused by compression stroke and how much is caused timming?

If there is not enought cylinder pressure before ignition, will the motor start? Or, will it fill the exhaust with fuel/air?

Anybody having issues with hard cranking and backfiring?

?

There is no discussion about it in this thread because every Flame owner knows that this setting is non-adjustable and fixed. It isn't a problem.
It is adjustable on the Epic.
OEM timing is about 14 degrees

Thanks Chris.

 

[ATS_Aaron]

I just wonder why there is no discussion on setting "cranking timing". No edit cables?

What is OEM "cranking timing"?
What is Enhancer "cranking timing"?
What is T/L "cranking timing"? (I notice it's has two settings...me thinks)
What happen when there is to much timing at cranking?
What happen when there is to little timing at cranking?

At cranking, how much cylinder pressure is caused by compression stroke and how much is caused timming?

If there is not enought cylinder pressure before ignition, will the motor start? Or, will it fill the exhaust with fuel/air?

Anybody having issues with hard cranking and backfiring?

?

OEM and Enhancer crank timing - I don't know
MSD TL crank timing on the analog systems is whatever full advance is, so probably 25-28 degrees. On the digital systems I think they reverse the polarity of the pickup so that it uses the trailing edge instead of the leading edge and that retards the timing by the width of the pickup divided by the distance from the center of the crank times two and times pi and then multiply that by 360 to get it in degrees. I think it's about 20 degrees off the total advance, so total cranking advance = 5-8 degrees.

too advanced = kick back or backfire or the ski will actually run backwards.
too retarded = won't start

Aaron

 

[McDog]

So the Flame doesn't retard the timing for easier starting like the MSD does?

 

[Aircraftsalz]

So the Flame doesn't retard the timing for easier starting like the MSD does?

With the Flame or Epic you make the curve... Like I have mine start around 19 deg & holds that until 1600 RPM.... I can make my curve start the timing at what ever, takes 2 minutes to make a curve & load it into the ATP system.....

In the PIC is my curve I'm running with my XS1000, this curve is insaine the hit it has!

 

[Matt_E]

So the Flame doesn't retard the timing for easier starting like the MSD does?

The Flame retards the timing under 1k rpm for easy starting.

 

[OCD Solutions]

since we are sharing curves, here is my new surf/flatwater curve.
Curve A is for surf, Curve B is for flatwater.

 

[Matt_E]

Nm

 

[Aircraftsalz]

Nice curve Boyer! You really get a hard hit 31-32 and pull it back down.... Give it a quick try

 

[OCD Solutions]

I don't believe in throttling my motor. I want max power all the time.

LOL, i'd say you don't have enough power then, have you ever considered switching to an X-Scream powerplant? :biggrin: Sorry Matt, couldn't resist.

Nice curve Boyer! You really get a hard hit 31-32 and pull it back down.... Give it a quick try

Already have it loaded. :bigok:

 

[Matt_E]

LOL, i'd say you don't have enough power then, have you ever considered switching to an X-Scream powerplant? :biggrin: Sorry Matt, couldn't resist.
k:

Lol
:lmao:

 

[masterblaster]

josh I like that curve you setup,Im running a very sim one but taking it to 36 advance on a 5 mil

 

[ATS_Aaron]

I think a big part of the problem is the crappy sensor/coil setup that Yamaha used on the 6m6/61X/62T. It's a hall effect sensor. It's simple, and reliable, but at low rpm it's a very dirty signal. The hall effect get's its "power" from the spinning magnet and if the magnet isn't spinning fast enough then there isn't enough power generated to produce a clean signal.

My MR2 had a similar problem with the stock distributor and a Motec ecu (a $3000 ecu BTW). The ECU couldn't get a strong enough signal from the distributor so it would randomly die if the idle dropped below 1500 rpm.

The MSD total loss (and I presume FLAME) don't have this issue because they use a magnetic sensor that will activate even at ZERO rpm when the magnet passes over the pickup.

I think Yamaha fixed this on the 760 and newer motors. I've seen pics/diagrams and the 760 appears to have a magnetic type sensor that pics up the presence of a small metal strip on the flywheel.

Aaron

 

[Matt_E]

I think a big part of the problem is the crappy sensor/coil setup that Yamaha used on the 6m6/61X/62T. It's a hall effect sensor. It's simple, and reliable, but at low rpm it's a very dirty signal. The hall effect get's its "power" from the spinning magnet and if the magnet isn't spinning fast enough then there isn't enough power generated to produce a clean signal.

My MR2 had a similar problem with the stock distributor and a Motec ecu (a $3000 ecu BTW). The ECU couldn't get a strong enough signal from the distributor so it would randomly die if the idle dropped below 1500 rpm.

The MSD total loss (and I presume FLAME) don't have this issue because they use a magnetic sensor that will activate even at ZERO rpm when the magnet passes over the pickup.

I think Yamaha fixed this on the 760 and newer motors. I've seen pics/diagrams and the 760 appears to have a magnetic type sensor that pics up the presence of a small metal strip on the flywheel.

Aaron

Mostly right, but you're confusing terms....the stock sensor is not hall effect type. It's just a passive coil setup.
Yamaha switched to the hall effect sensors in the 760 ans later ignitions. They're active and are more suitable for digital applications.

More detailed: hall effect refers to the generation of a small current in at the presence of a magnetic field in an electric field. It doesn't have to be moving.