ATP Total Loss TS2

fx1dan

fx1dan

Location
uk
me and a riding buddy have been using the ts2 for a year now. he's static is still set at 50 on a 900 dasa and he has had 0 problems. I have mine fitted to a 1100 dasa which did start hard set at 50 but did not cause any damage, I have had the reflash for the last 3 months and can not fault the product, its been spot on and has always done what its ment to.

I was worried about running total loss as you hear a lot of negative about running a non charging system but its been a great product.

I would recommend this product to close friends, easy to fit and does the job great.
 
tntsuperjet

tntsuperjet

Tntperformance-engineering.com
Location
Georgetown ca
If you have static timing set at 50 deg that would be your maximum advance.
If you back it off to static of 45 and go in to software and make te corrections to the curve so you maintain same running timing curve your problems will go away.
After spending 2 weeks at the finals and listening to 90% of free ride boats I didn't hear but two that where clean.
There so bad they can't hold steady throttle for 2 seconds and rip a clean pull.
They have to conornuasly blurp the throttle, most look like a throttle monkey on speed, neap brap brap brap brap brap brap. And there just trying to do a wave setup to do a trick.
My finger be tired and neck sore from all that monkeyness.
Your boat should be able to idle for at least 10 seconds and rip clean first pull of the trigger every time.
But no ones does.
So yes most have severe over fueling issues and a hot spark at low rpm will pop it off and make it kick back. You guys have to remember these are all waisted spark type ignitions and if you have a pipe full of fuel the piston at BDC will light the fuel charge in the pipe and cause the motor to kick back violently.
That's how over fueling issues can cause starter issues and blown up exhaust.
 
Pablo

Pablo

sqeez bth levrs & lean bk
Site Supporter
Location
georgia
Quinc said:
Anyone running the flame on limited 701? Did it make a big difference over an enhancer?
Click to expand...
@Quinc, I ran a flame setup on a xmetal ported top end on oem cases for a whole season... it was a strong, reliable little motor. It's not gonna make a 701 feel like 900 but its one of those Biggest Bang for your buck investments. It's definitely a improvement over MSD enhancer all day long. Any TL is night and day over enhancer (and oem Cdi).
 
wanderer1

wanderer1

Location
Cruising Around
Pablo said:
@Quinc, I ran a flame setup on a xmetal ported top end on oem cases for a whole season... it was a strong, reliable little motor. It's not gonna make a 701 feel like 900 but its one of those Biggest Bang for your buck investments. It's definitely a improvement over MSD enhancer all day long. Any TL is night and day over enhancer (and oem Cdi).
Click to expand...
With the same timing curve? A better way to say it imo may be, a more aggressive timing curve (that a programmable ignition allows) is night and day over and enhancer and oem cdi. Some guys reading this thread may not understand this. Just making the point, that yes a stronger spark is achieved pulling power from the battery, but almost all the gain is from a more aggressive timing curve and the ability to add timing where a given setup would be strongest for even more gains. Also being able to add timing to boost a low point in performance, while allowing retard for safety. I agree with Pablo that adding a programmable cdi, when the curve is right, adds a lot of performance and usually awesome throttle response. Have fun
 
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RyanO

RyanO

X
Location
Gold Coast, Australia
tntsuperjet said:
If you have static timing set at 50 deg that would be your maximum advance.
If you back it off to static of 45 and go in to software and make te corrections to the curve so you maintain same running timing curve your problems will go away.
After spending 2 weeks at the finals and listening to 90% of free ride boats I didn't hear but two that where clean.
There so bad they can't hold steady throttle for 2 seconds and rip a clean pull.
They have to conornuasly blurp the throttle, most look like a throttle monkey on speed, neap brap brap brap brap brap brap. And there just trying to do a wave setup to do a trick.
My finger be tired and neck sore from all that monkeyness.
Your boat should be able to idle for at least 10 seconds and rip clean first pull of the trigger every time.
But no ones does.
So yes most have severe over fueling issues and a hot spark at low rpm will pop it off and make it kick back. You guys have to remember these are all waisted spark type ignitions and if you have a pipe full of fuel the piston at BDC will light the fuel charge in the pipe and cause the motor to kick back violently.
That's how over fueling issues can cause starter issues and blown up exhaust.
Click to expand...

Everyone is running reverse jetting these days which makes it a little harder to not oil up a plug at low rpm's. 150 low - 100 high for example, running a higher pop off helps a bit but only to a point. It will be rich at idle to 1/8 throttle but takes away that poor throttle response from a brief moment without the required fuel, that these massive engines get as they want to rev so fast when you grab a hand full of throttle. You'll also get the benefit of the extra fuel cooling the cases lowering your intake temps and increasing power.

I'm not trying to tell you that you're wrong because they sure as hell do some stupid things around idle and you know much much more than I do however we've not had any luck relieving this issue whilst still keeping throttle response.
 
tntsuperjet

tntsuperjet

Tntperformance-engineering.com
Location
Georgetown ca
Well to me this makes no sence what so ever to need a 150 low speed jet on a 900+CC motor. When a 700cc motor uses a 120-125 low speed.
The larger motor is going to increase the vacuumed signal by 25+% why you need such a big jet??
It makes more sense to me to give the motor fuel where it builds heat and take fuel away where there is no heat.
So 125 low with a 130 high.
Then your adding the fuel where it can be used in stead of dumping raw duel into exhaust and running to lean on high speed to make it clean up quicker.
 
RyanO

RyanO

X
Location
Gold Coast, Australia
These motors rev so fast, it's the only way to not have a lean hesitation or lose throttle response (which ever way you want to look at it)... And once the entire circuit is open, the main jet only needs to deliver the balance of the mixture required thus a smaller jet.

These 16mm strokers have a fair bit more case volume as well.

You never know, when the port design starts to change and become more effective for these bigger motors, .jetting may go back to normal.

The blipping is also mostly just a habit thing as I do it and whether I am or not, my 1200 will hit the same at setup wake rpms.

Again, I am not saying you are wrong and enjoy reading your responses, I would love to see what you come up with tuning a 1000+ with Rickter wet pipe and 48/49 mm carbs etc.
 
Dartman

Dartman

Location
usa
tntsuperjet said:
Well to me this makes no sence what so ever to need a 150 low speed jet on a 900+CC motor. When a 700cc motor uses a 120-125 low speed.
The larger motor is going to increase the vacuumed signal by 25+% why you need such a big jet??
It makes more sense to me to give the motor fuel where it builds heat and take fuel away where there is no heat.
So 125 low with a 130 high.
Then your adding the fuel where it can be used in stead of dumping raw duel into exhaust and running to lean on high speed to make it clean up quicker.
Click to expand...

yes that works for race skis not for aggressive freestyle
you cant run small low jets when doing multiple combos or more than a few backflips in a row
throttle response goes too lean
 
stefan

stefan

Location
denmark
Any that have hade starting problems with strokers ? I am building one, and my engine tells me that flame have a hard time starting strokers. I told him BS but have nothing too back it up with.
 
tntsuperjet

tntsuperjet

Tntperformance-engineering.com
Location
Georgetown ca
Dartman said:
yes that works for race skis not for aggressive freestyle
you cant run small low jets when doing multiple combos or more than a few backflips in a row
throttle response goes too lean
Click to expand...
If your boat runs clean for one back flip but starts going lean after multiple tricks it's time to fix your fuel pickup problem. Making your motor so rich it can starve for fuel without big gig isn't the answer it's a bandaid. In LSA they do 20 to 50 flips rolls and run inverted for long time at wot and we don't have to jet rich to keep away fuel starvation. Keep in mind when there doing multiple rolls and flips there under full load so the slightest fuel issue could be death. So think outside the box stop using single fuel pickup so when inverted you don't suck air.
 
Dartman

Dartman

Location
usa
sorry i dont know what LSA is?
freestyle skis dont have a load when airborne and throttle is closed then have to hit hard again when the pump is heavily loaded instantly for the next trick
also richer low jetting helps engines from over revving when not loaded
freestyle engines are set with higher idles most of the time to be closer to the power coming on
 
tntsuperjet

tntsuperjet

Tntperformance-engineering.com
Location
Georgetown ca
Well I guess I need to explain a few things.
One is most of you don't realize I'm not just a pipe builder and engine builder.
But I was once one of the top free style riders in the country. So I spent a decade competing in close course and free ride.
I was also one of the first to ever do a back flip.
So I have a good idea what it takes to setup a boat for such events .
LSA. Light service aircraft, acrobatics.
My new fuel tank will solve the problems of fuel starving regardless of how many back flips as the boat will run upside down for 7 min. 3 min full load with half tank.
As for lean condition on top will allow for much greater over rev and cause a bigger big on impact and pump reload.
Simple things to remember.
You need load to burn fuel, you need lean condition to gain over rev. Rich dcondition to slow over rev.
No wonder so many of the boats won't run clean. Duel pickups won't accomplish much of anything without a gravity valve.
In stead of beating your heads against the wall look at other sports and pick up what they have done for past 20yrs.
Nothing flips and spins and twist harder or more then an airplane. And most of them are carburated engines.
So how can they pickup fuel in multiple angles flips spins under wot and not fuel starv??
All I am saying is there is no reason to over jet your boat to make it flip over and over. The cleaner it fuels the harder and higher it will flip.
End of story.
It's like putting makeup on an ugly chick. May look better but still has same problem.
 
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