Surfriding Blown Motor Pics from the other day= SUX ADA 920

I guess its time for a rebuild, lol. Rod snapped and went through the case by the starter and through the bottom. Looks like the top ring is fused to the piston. Top of piston looks a mess.
Trying to figure out the exact sequence
 

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Tyrant1919

Site Supporter
Location
Washington, DC
I like pictures of this kind of destruction, thanks for posting. Curious as to what the experts say caused this. What makes a piston look like that on top? Overheating? I have no clue.
 

BruceSki

Formerly Motoman25
Location
Long Island
That's either detonation or chunks of metal bouncing around. Depends what let go first.

Did you swamp the motor recently? Hydro lock it? Sometimes a bent rod will snap a few hours run time later.


How many hours were on the crank? Stroker or stock length?
 
ADA billet 920 89mm big bore top end,crank works 6mil 133 long rod crank,225 compression,
I did flood the engine bay a month ago but had it running within 12 hours.
What causes detonation?
Is it a timing issue?
 

waterfreak

I had a vision!
Site Supporter
Vendor Account
Location
s florida
lower rod bearing failure possibly due to slight pitting in the lower rod bearing from ingesting the water. 12 hours of not running and submerged is enough for that to happen...especially on a stroker
 
Just as waterfreak said. That is not detonation. That is parts of the lower rod bearing being compressed between piston and head. Sequence like this: rod bearing begins to fail (could be pitting of rollers or retainer failure), as its kept running the bearing begins to liberate pieces of the rollers, retainer, and thrust washers. As those parts go up the transfer and boost port they are compressed between the piston and head. As the engine continues to run and shed parts from the bearing, the rod begins to move around on the crank pin (since not much of the bearing is left). Normally one of the rollers (but can be retainer) catch as its exiting the rod. Locking up the rod, crank continues to spin and break the rod. Rod flys through case thanks to centrifugal force. All this happens pretty fast once the liberated pieces start to get bigger. Long story short you got some good paper weights.
 
Why wasnt there any metal in the cylinder with the destroyed piston?
Im puzzled as to why the piston got mashed up but the cylder wall of that piston is still smooth as glass?
 
Normally only badly damages around the squish band as that is the only place tight enough for those small pieces to be "squished". lol Half the time the pistons sides and cylinder wall remain unscathed, just luck of the drawl whether pieces get caught in a port by the piston or not. I assure you that piston having huge craters in it is not the result of detonation.
 

Vumad

Super Hero, with a cape!
Location
St. Pete, FL
Why wasnt there any metal in the cylinder with the destroyed piston?
Im puzzled as to why the piston got mashed up but the cylder wall of that piston is still smooth as glass?

Because all the metal was mashed into the head of the piston and into the dome. There are no loose pieces because it's all one piece. It never makes it to the cylinder wall. The second it hits the dome it becomes part of it or the piston.
 
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Vumad

Super Hero, with a cape!
Location
St. Pete, FL
Just as waterfreak said. That is not detonation. That is parts of the lower rod bearing being compressed between piston and head. Sequence like this: rod bearing begins to fail (could be pitting of rollers or retainer failure), as its kept running the bearing begins to liberate pieces of the rollers, retainer, and thrust washers. As those parts go up the transfer and boost port they are compressed between the piston and head. As the engine continues to run and shed parts from the bearing, the rod begins to move around on the crank pin (since not much of the bearing is left). Normally one of the rollers (but can be retainer) catch as its exiting the rod. Locking up the rod, crank continues to spin and break the rod. Rod flys through case thanks to centrifugal force. All this happens pretty fast once the liberated pieces start to get bigger. Long story short you got some good paper weights.

How can you rule out detonation as a cause? Detonation, water ingestion / worn bearing and hydrolocking can all cause crank bearing failures. I'm no expert and wouldn't know how to figure out which caused which. How can you say that it was definately water-soaked bearings that caused this and not one of the other causes of bearing failure?

My last exploded motor had the same appearance. It immediately died after a sub. I am sure I hydrolocked my motor and blew out my crank bearings. I doubt it was a coincidence that they just happened to fail right then. It's not fair to assume that loose bearings are only caused by worn out bearings.
 
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Vumad

Super Hero, with a cape!
Location
St. Pete, FL
ADA billet 920 89mm big bore top end,crank works 6mil 133 long rod crank,225 compression,
I did flood the engine bay a month ago but had it running within 12 hours.
What causes detonation?
Is it a timing issue?

Detonation has several causes. The 2 I know of are over advanced timing and compression too high for the octane fuel you are using. You are running 225psi. I have no doubt you were running the right octane, but fuel loses it's octane rating over time, so if you didn't have fresh fuel, that is another possible cause.
 

DAG

Yes, my balls tickled from that landing
Location
Charlotte, NC
cool site http://www.kenoconnorracing.com/Piston Death.html

There would be damage in the center of the piston/head if a piece of metal was slung into it at 7000 RPM's. Obviously the squish band would have more destruction due to the positive interference, but the center would still have some markings which does not appear to be any by the pictures
 
No where in my statements did I def say that it was water damage to the bearing. Actually said above that it could be retainer or other bearing failure. what I did say was it's def bearing failure. To your question why I can rule out detonation: never have I seen an engine detonate that badly on one cylinder and not at all on the other. Octane loss, high compression, and too advanced timing may effect one cylinder a bit more then the other but def not that bad in one and not at all in the other. And I have pulled apart many engines with crank failure that did not damage the bowl of the done. I believe that depends on the exhaust gas temp at time of failure. Just my .02
 
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the other piston looks mint.
As far as fuel, i was running fresh 110 octaine race fuel

also due to the broken motor mounts the motor had massive vibration going on and the timing place screws became loose. The timing was probably all over the place with a loose stator? But that still doesnt make sense that one piston was damaged and the other was not?
 
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Stator plate/timing jumping around could have def factored into the bearing prematurely failing and or the rod bending and causing bearing failure. And since the plate is moving with vibration it could have POSSIBLY only misfired one cylinder that far out of time. But with a few hundred hours on a stroker the bearing and rod may have been on its last leg.
 
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