Surfriding Blown Motor Pics from the other day= SUX ADA 920

KTM434

Jamie FN Hickey
Location
Palm Coast FL
Pete, this sucks bro... I feel for ya! At least it happened at the end of the season and by the sounds of it you had a great riding season.
Its kinda hard to give an exact guarantee of whathuge cause was since you know you had multiple issues. There's no doubt the crank bearings were bad and thats what the large pits are in your piston and head dome. I agree with Nuclear on most of his statements I also notice the head has 1 black dome with carbon buildup (normally indicates a lean condition) and the rod is bent (could have been from hydrolocking or could have bent just from the lower rod bearing coming apart and breaking the rod). I do think this may have had a lean condition with possible detonating because the piston looks very chalky from heat and deto as well as the head dome that's black (shiny dome stays shiny from fuel or water wash down). There's a lot of variables since there was water ingestion with hydrolocking, timing jumping all over, and a high hour stroker crank all in salt water. I think the high hour crank with water ingestion brought the bearings to it's final hours of service life. The sporadic timing likely caused detonation and the hydrolocking may have caused a bent rod which would throw the engine off balance and possibly even causing a weak crank seal to leak and lean out that immediate cylinder. I don't have a fully detailed scenario of how everything went down any this is just my thought, could have gone down differently but I think that crank was already weak and the water ingestion/hydrolocking caused permanent damage and the engine only ran for a few hours before these characteristics caused a full engine failure.
Pete, on a side note I will buy the cylinder if you sell it. Your last post said you would put a new engine in there...
And I'll buy the Thrust trim :)
 
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BruceSki

Formerly Motoman25
Location
Long Island
Here are some pics of my 865 when it let go of a wrist pin bearing. I assure you there was no detonation on this one. Just chunks of metal up the transfers and on top of the piston.

Just an example.
 

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I think your right on my engine analysis.
I dont think there was detonation here either.
There was metal stuck on the dome of the burned cylinder which was metal from the bearing entering the cylinder. I just didnt see it until I looked closely today. It all looked like carbon build up but once I chipped it off it was metal.
The whole situation sucks but I feel good that it was a bearing and not detonation, if that makes sense to anyone, lol
IMG-20121124-00030.jpgIMG-20121124-00031.jpgMotor Blown 1.jpg
 

KTM434

Jamie FN Hickey
Location
Palm Coast FL
Here is another damaged engine. I stumbled on my motor damage when replacing a leaking oring in the head. I had a riding day get cut short because of a sporadic running issue. When water came over my hood it felt like my ignition was getting wet and arcing out on the salt water or I was having some water ingestion that the plugs were struggling to burn off. When I got home and rinsed it off while running and I saw bubbles coming out around the dome past the oring and the dome was also spinning back and forth from vibration. I thought the sparkplug plug was loose until I grabbed it and it just spun the whole dome. It only did this while it was hot but was tight when it was cold. When I got a new set of orings to reseal the head this is what I found. There was a lot of detonation over the exhaust port on the pto cylinder and even the top ring had a chunk out of it but thankfully no cylinder wall damage. The current bore was 84.25 and I planned on rebuilding it anyway so I went to 85mil (771cc). After looking at the crank seal it was obvious what happened. The rust buildup around the rear crankseal tore the seal and caused the rear cylinder to lean out and quickly cause the damage.

photo1-35.jpg photo3-31.jpg photo2-36.jpg photo-5.jpg
 
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BruceSki

Formerly Motoman25
Location
Long Island
Damn Bruce that's bad! You didn't hear or feel anything beforehand?

yeah it just shut off while riding. Felt like I pulled the lanyard out. It was probably metal chunks getting lodged in the plug and putting out the spark.

I was a dumbass and started it back up to get out of the channel and make it to shore. Pretty sure the massive damage happened during that time. Meaning, Once it locked up and snapped the rod then obliterated my cases and cylinder.
 

Thats def what happens when cast pistons lean out or exhaust gas temps spike. Forged tend to actually burn the exhaust side off or stick in the cylinder before they break. Cast pistons break from the top ring up as there are about to burn. Then pieces of the piston and top ring stick in the piston and dome. But More often then not the parts that dont stick in piston or dome go right out the exhaust port and rarely do cylinder damage. At least you found the back seal bad and dont have to guess why.....
 
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KTM434

Jamie FN Hickey
Location
Palm Coast FL
Yeah luckily I planned on doing crank seals while it was torn down just to know that this engine was good to go for a while. If I had just thrown new pistons and fresh bore I would have had the exact same issue with that crank seal!
 
Location
dfw
Shoot a closer picture of the rod, looks rusted as well as corrosion on the piston. Was this motor sitting for a while?

Brian

The rod failed where there is no compression force, only tension. An electron microscope would reveal a scratch, corrosion pit, or manufacturing flaw that caused the stress riser. Damage to the piston and head was bearing parts since the piston is intact.
 
I think crank bearing too and exactly as nuklear explained it. I had a kawi similiar but it never got a chance to crack the rod .. I installed a factory pipe on my 750sx, got it tuned mint, hit max rpm, those old crank bearings couldnt take it anymore. the same bearing broke up, got caught in a transfer port, took out half the skirt of the piston, the skirt dropped down south and the crank pushed it more down south through the bottom of the case. it ran pretty good on the trailer :rolleyes: piston crown and dome gets to look like that for sure from bearing particles. That rod slapping around at rpm and itll break without a doubt
 
Location
Pa
what ignition are you running? its possible that detonation could have been the cause of a bearing failure,detonation is like hitting the piston with a hammer when its coming up.
 
Location
PA
LTD: Nuklear already pointed out that its not detonation

"Just as waterfreak said. That is not detonation. That is parts of the lower rod bearing being compressed between piston and head."-Nuklear
 
Location
Pa
LTD: Nuklear already pointed out that its not detonation

"Just as waterfreak said. That is not detonation. That is parts of the lower rod bearing being compressed between piston and head."-Nuklear


I was just offering my opnion based on what I've read and seen. I by no means claim to be a professional engine builder. I was just suggesting he check his ignition rather safe than sorry.
 
Location
PA
I was just offering my opnion based on what I've read and seen. I by no means claim to be a professional engine builder. I was just suggesting he check his ignition rather safe than sorry.

No problem, I did some quick google searching regarding rod bearing failure caused by detonation, and I found some great interesting pages that describe similar issues to what the OP had. I think Nuklear is right, that it is rod bearing failure, but it could of definitely been caused by detonation. So, in my uneducated googled opinion, both LTD and Nuklear are correct. I'm sorry LTD.
 
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