Surfriding Bond rail width and its effect on handling

[227]

Cannibal are you a surfrider? If you aren't I'm thinking that widening an SXR's rails wouldn't help to much. My idea is mostly to compensate the rail loss due to Tubbie installation on SJ's meant to be surf ridden

 

[Cannibal]

I ride it all. I spend lots of time at the lake, hope to hit the ocean once a month at least this year, we river ride on week day evenings as well.


Here is my build thread.

 

[Mr Bojangles]

I was planning on doing this mod on my build and adding another inch, and instead of 90*, I was going to do a 45* rail like the Matrix hulls. They make it sound that its good for white water in surf, and it seems I am always there

 

[Cannibal]

I was planning on doing this mod on my build and adding another inch, and instead of 90*, I was going to do a 45* rail like the Matrix hulls. They make it sound that its good for white water in surf, and it seems I am always there

Guess I've never paid that much attention to the pictures of the Matrix to realize that was how they were built. I know Scotts did this on his and he has a Matrix, so that must be where the idea came from.

 

[Mr Bojangles]

here is the video and you can see how wide the rails are. Its starts at 1:55

http://youtu.be/o5Us1b3y6gY

 

[Cannibal]

Makes me wonder if their new Viper is going to have the same bond rail or they switch back to a traditional vertical side. They said it is Matrix based, so I guess we'll see.

 

[Mr Bojangles]

I think most of the trinity's use a wider bond rail with the 45* sides. I dont have any rails right now anyway, so I figured its a good enough time to try it out

 

[FL-cracker]

Makes me wonder if their new Viper is going to have the same bond rail or they switch back to a traditional vertical side. They said it is Matrix based, so I guess we'll see.

The rails were not changed on the viper. The entire lower was not changeed other then the Viper full length will now be -4"s from the mold including the rear bondrail, where before the bondrail was still hanging way out the back of the ski (even though the bottom was cut down shorter) acting like a wheelie bar.

Everyone who has road Scotts SJ thinks it's bad arse for surf, and I know he loves it.

 

[WAB]

I looked at the underside of the bondrails on alot of hulls at daytona.
The best design, IMO, was The kevlar Rickter that had really wide rails in the front, and tapered back to a std size rail even with the front of the tray. The FR2 rickter is shaped similar to this as well.

I ride with scotts and have tried his modded Stock hull and the Matrix. I notice it more on the matrix, but when you land at an angle, (like a re-entry) you can really feel the rail 'wing' catch the water, esp on the front part of the ski. it hurts your arms & wrists. But, when you hit a curling wave with the bottom of the hull, it really throws you much more than with a std hull rail shape. But, it IS one of the best riding skis out there.
I've notice that if you really lay over the skis with full length wide rails it seems to lift the back end and unhooks the pump,

It would be *really cool* if someone made an inexpensive alum rail mod kit with a couple shape options. :deal:

 

[Cannibal]

It would be *really cool* if someone made an inexpensive alum rail mod kit with a couple shape options. :deal:

I was actually thinking the same thing but with fiberglass. You'd cut the vertical section off of your rail and bolt these on. Then you could change them out with different shapes and widths for your riding style and whether you are riding surf or flat. Just another way to tune your ski to you.

 

[FL-cracker]

I think when I build my Viper I will have Bobby trim the bond rail MUCH shorter (where it wings down on the 45*) witch should help with what WAB is talking about. Another option would be to cut them at a angle like Tim does on the freaks, that may be the best of both worlds.

Just noticed on Rickter site XFS -Rails are now at 45 degree for better grip during turns. Wonder where he got that idea. lol

 

[ratboy120206]

you will notice a difference. It hard to ride a ski in the surf without wider rails. makes for an all around better ride. Heres some pics of what i did.

 

[Cannibal]

That looks good. I've been cutting on mine so far and have some pink foam mocked up for mold...I'm going a bit different though.

All the talk about the 45* Matrix and then you look at a Freak with wide rails and turning rear sponsons (deep rear bond line) and see there is a few different thoughts on the subject.

So, here's what I've done: Cut the vertical section of bond rail off completely, attached pink foam, and make it a uniform 2" wide. At that 2" mark, make a 45* angle. The entire front sponson area on the SXR will be covered by a wider 45* angled rail, then transition to the rear with a deep rear bond line. It will also have the 45* angle built in, so I can cut off the "sponson" an have a uniform 45* bond rail if it just doesn't work out.

What's funny, I watched the new BOB G3 video just today, and was amazed at what I saw with the bond rail....basically what I just described. Nice to know I won't be charting new territory here.

Take a look for yourself at about 2:28

 

[Mr Bojangles]

you will notice a difference. It hard to ride a ski in the surf without wider rails. makes for an all around better ride. Heres some pics of what i did.

View attachment 173318View attachment 173317

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Two Questions for you.........

1) What did your final dimensions come out to be?

2) is there a reason for the 45* cut on the back of the rail? I would think that it would tend to make the back of the ski spin out easier. I did something similar to my X2 and when I cut the rear of the bond rail off, every time you would want to turn hard racing, it would slide out rather than bite

 

[ratboy120206]

Two Questions for you.........

1) What did your final dimensions come out to be?

2) is there a reason for the 45* cut on the back of the rail? I would think that it would tend to make the back of the ski spin out easier. I did something similar to my X2 and when I cut the rear of the bond rail off, every time you would want to turn hard racing, it would slide out rather than bite

2 inches on the top and 3 3/4 on bottom. And for the rear being cut forward I like the ski to slide a lot like you stated

 

[Mr Bojangles]

Thanks! I will probably follow the same dimensions when I widen mine

 

[harris414]

Anyone know the dimensions of some of the a/m hulls

 

[Cannibal]

I do know the EME Q8 is identical to an SXR, just shorter in a couple dimensions lengthwise.

Other than that, can't help.

 

[harris414]

dimensions of the bond rail of some of the a/m hulls

 

[Tyler Zane]

And for the rear being cut forward I like the ski to slide a lot like you stated

i always wondered about cutting the rear bond line. seems to me that it would allow you to get the nose up faster at low speeds and have little effect of cornering. if anything it would get rid of that corner pocket that just grabs water in a hard turn and reduce drag.