Boost Bottle for freestyle?

[meatball]

no, thats what hydrasports did, and its not too popular due to all the moving parts and more importantly, the price tag.

I really dont see how you could shoe-horn more horsepower and torque into an area that the WD 1200 does, until you go diesel, but then throttle response goes to crap. If you can do it, then do it, I would love for someone to prove me wrong. But at this stage in the race it doesnt look possible. Further on, sure when 4-stroke technologies improve.

 

[jeepmark4x4]

because 2 strokes are very very very in-efficient....dude, please...diesels dont have the RPM and they would weigh a TON. and i keep trying to tell you FORCED INDUCTION, you could blow the waterdawg 1200 out of the water, hydracrapsports did it all wrong...they are in the racing scene, thats why you dont see PV lamey motors in long distance courses, they would eat themselves alive at full throttle for more than 10 seconds.

 

[Waste Land]

because 2 strokes are very very very in-efficient....dude, please...diesels dont have the RPM and they would weigh a TON. and i keep trying to tell you FORCED INDUCTION, you could blow the waterdawg 1200 out of the water, hydracrapsports did it all wrong...they are in the racing scene, thats why you dont see PV lamey motors in long distance courses, they would eat themselves alive at full throttle for more than 10 seconds.

We dont go long distances at WOT
sunk four stroke engine is not as easy to revive as a 2 stroke

More moving parts to break. We are in a jumping, bailing, shallow water stabbing, flipping scene.

As I'm sure there has to be "SOME" protection. Whats gonna happen when i lose my boat upside down in the surf, and the oil is all running up.

Price Tag

Complication of matainence

 

[WaveDemon]

because 2 strokes are very very very in-efficient....dude, please...diesels dont have the RPM and they would weigh a TON. and i keep trying to tell you FORCED INDUCTION, you could blow the waterdawg 1200 out of the water, hydracrapsports did it all wrong...they are in the racing scene, thats why you dont see PV lamey motors in long distance courses, they would eat themselves alive at full throttle for more than 10 seconds.

are you talking about hydro space? please tell us how they did it all wrong and what you would do to fix it.

 

[jeepmark4x4]

We dont go long distances at WOT
sunk four stroke engine is not as easy to revive as a 2 stroke

More moving parts to break. We are in a jumping, bailing, shallow water stabbing, flipping scene.

As I'm sure there has to be "SOME" protection. Whats gonna happen when i lose my boat upside down in the surf, and the oil is all running up.

Price Tag

Complication of matainence

So what your saying is that you beat up your jetski more than a MX bike? I highly doubt that, those things take more of a beating than you could ever give your ski.

 

[WaveDemon]

So what your saying is that you beat up your jetski more than a MX bike? I highly doubt that, those things take more of a beating than you could ever give your ski.

how often do you sink a MX bike?

 

[jeepmark4x4]

Its called a dry sump, waste land....please tell us what a dry sump does? wavedemon your welcome to comment too, and please, dont look it up if you dont know what it is off the top of your head. You sink any motor you got problems, as far as it being upside, MX bikes are upsidedown all the time, UHH double backflips...why do you think every motor sport out there has gone to 4 strokes. Go look up some theory on (Volumemetric Efficiency), or as people that know what there talking about call it VE...than try and tell me a less effeciency motor will make more power.

 

[WaveDemon]

Its called a dry sump, waste land....please tell us what a dry sump does? wavedemon your welcome to comment too, and please, dont look it up if you dont know what it is off the top of your head. You sink any motor you got problems, as far as it being upside, MX bikes are upsidedown all the time, UHH double backflips...why do you think every motor sport out there has gone to 4 strokes. Go look up some theory on (Volumemetric Efficiency), or as people that know what there talking about call it VE...than try and tell me a less effeciency motor will make more power.

obviously a watercraft motor will need a dry sump if it were a 4 stroke.

the problem is jetski's skink. if you ride in surf you will sink it at some point in time probably multiple times. a MX bike will never have to deal with ocean water in it's internals. the advantages are obviouse when it comes to drying out a sunk 2 stroke.

the down side

• less power down low
• smaller power band
• replacing top ends regularly
• buring oil with gas
• no forced induction

the upside

• lower initial cost
• can ride within the same hour of sinking

we can easily make more power than we can use with a 2 storke. why get rid of it?

 

[Idok]

so, did anyone tell Jeff his motor is weak, outdated and needs FI?


we should probaby let him know so next time he can bring us something with some HP

 

[meatball]

Apparently Jeff's motor is a watercrap 1200.

I have nothing wrong with a 4-stroke, and nothing wrong with lotsa power, but there IS such a thing as a clean-burning EFFICIENT 2-stroke, look at the Evinrudes. 2-stroke PWC engines are king over 4-strokes for lotsa reasons. If you can come up with an awesome 4-stroke PWC engine then do it, it hasnt been done for a reason, except hydraspace, and they're certainly not freestyle skis and are quite pricey.

I understand lotsa horsepower, but I think I'll probably stop at around 150, I dont see the need for a 300 horsepower engine in my ski.

And yea, the way pancake treats his boat, I would say they are thrown about a bit more then MX.

Diesel engines are awesome, and if you are so keen to bringing in outside applications in other sports, check this out

http://www.cumminsracing.com/

 

[xxx2]

I say junk the 4 and the 2 strokes, It's all About the wankel (Rotary)
YouTube - Engine Video

 

[WFO Speedracer]

Wankels are kewl but they still burn some oil and they sound like an air compressor.

 

[xxx2]

Uses oil? So does a two stroke. The newer ones are quiter and have less vibration than a two stroke. They make power on their exhaust stroke (unlike 2 strokes:biggrin: ) That means they turn up faster and stay in their powerband!




Ok , I am just kidding (It's hard enough to keep one running, Let alone with saltwater in it)

 

[jeepmark4x4]

meatball you said the throttle response on a diesel would be bad....wrong....it would be outstanding, the low end torque of a diesel is incredible

there is no such thing as an efficient 2 stroke. the 2stroke evenrudes are pieces of junk, go ahead and look in the outboard market, ALL 4 strokes.. and were talking if you build a 1000cc PV lamey 2 stroke motor to make the power of a 4 stroke, you would be 10,000 deep so you cant use price as a variable against 4 strokes.

And there is no way Pancake abuses the motor in his ski more than freestyle MX riders...yeah he might tear up the hull this and that, most dirtbike motors are open to the elements, especially when they bail going off a 90 foot tripple.

And when did this argument get so skewed, I'm saying that a 4 stroke would be more efficient and have more power than a 2 stroke....yeah there are pro's and con's to both

 

[WFO Speedracer]

Okay I am going to jump in here,can you make power with a four stroke ,yes you can.Is it going to be heavier than a two stroke ,yes it is.CC to CC to make a four stroke compete with a two stroke you run into a few problems.To make the four stroke run like the two stroke you have to use low friction rings,that means less sealing capabilities,that means it uses some amount of oil.You also have to have a decent head design,that usually means DOCH or double overhead cams with shim under bucket valve adjustment.That means pita to service anyway you look at it.You also have to have a fairly radical camshaft profile which narrows your powerband considerably and makes the engine very peaky,or very much like a two stroke.So basically to make a four stroke run like a two stroke you make it unreliable ,peaky and make it smoke.Sounds good so far.

 

[D-Roc]

yamaha's new phazer sled has a 4 stoke twin that is basically 2 250yzf motors merged and is 500cc making 80hp with lowend power, no transmission (cvt type) it could be used in a superjet but hopefully they make a double 450f motor that is 900cc twin thumper:biggthumpup: no turbo i believe, so ya it could be done, but probably wont

 

[WFO Speedracer]

The problem with the sled engines is that the power is usually geared higher because of the cvt clutch system,they are at a pretty high rpm before the clutches engage kinda giving them a slingshot effect that watercraft are lacking.

 

[D-Roc]

not the 4 strokes, those clutches are so adjustable they can be set to grab at almost any rpm or power curve, they use them in 2 and 4 stroke sleds and race cars.

 

[WaveDemon]

I was looking for something over at pwct and found this old ad for a boost bottle.

http://www.pwctoday.com/showthread.php?t=59572

 

[meatball]

While I cant comment on the throttle response (probably used wrong word) I will say that our family owns a 225 Merc Optimax (along with a couple other outboards). Being conservative on gas, I certainly measure the fuel consumption, and compared to going out my buddies boat with a 225 yami 4-stroke, and going out on mine, his used still a bit more gas, his boat not weighing much more, and mine having a much deeper V.

I would still take the Optimax over a 4-stroke anyday, it's simpler to work on, and while the 2's arent as fuel efficient (by a long shot especially going offshore!), the carbureted 2-strokes from yami are nice as well. Now I wonder why a 4-stroke 40 horse weighs a lot more then a 2-stroke 40 horse yami?

Sure theres something to be said for 4-stroke knowledge within a company, but IMO yamaha makes one of the best 4-stroke outboards in the market, and its still much heavier then their 2's at the same power output.