Carbon For Reinforcing

[paczowski123]

Thanks Vumad! That helps, but doesn't vacuum bagging require all sorts of hoses, pumps, and other materials? I've always wanted to learn the process, but seemed like a substantial upfront cost for materials?

I do have a bunch of extra glass fabric, maybe I'll go ahead and just do some glass then. Your points make a lot of sense especially the one about the rigid fabric against the flexible one.

 

[Yami-Rider]

You could buy some fiberglass twill with black dye to get the carbon look.

 

[paczowski123]

Oh, it has nothing to do with looks whatsoever. I just figured I could get by with less carbon fabric than glass and be stronger at the same time. Most of it wont even be seen either.

 

[Yami-Rider]

Like I said, cost me $320, but 60 of that was fiberglass. That was everything needed to vac bag.

 

[paczowski123]

Yami-rider, would you be able to share a bit of the stuff you bought and where you got it?

 

[Yami-Rider]

You can buy it pretty small quantities. I have a few projects I'm needing it for.
I got all my info where to buy from the sticky in this forum. Bought the cheap amazon pump, along with clear vacuum line, pump oil, vacuum gauge all from amazon, I think that order was $130 total. The rest of it, besides my release film, I bought from sollarcoposites. Us composites sells it all too, plus they have release film

 

[Yami-Rider]

If you want a smooth finish, do as the picture.

If you want texture finish, put peel ply under the release flim.

 

[paczowski123]

Thanks!

 

[Vumad]

Thanks Vumad! That helps, but doesn't vacuum bagging require all sorts of hoses, pumps, and other materials? I've always wanted to learn the process, but seemed like a substantial upfront cost for materials?

I do have a bunch of extra glass fabric, maybe I'll go ahead and just do some glass then. Your points make a lot of sense especially the one about the rigid fabric against the flexible one.

You need a vacuum, fittings, hose, gauge, bag, seal, peel ply, breather.

I started bagging with harbor freight bags and a shop vac, but the failure rate of the harbor freight seals were too high. However, it shows how simple the process can be.

Nate made a shopping list for all of us stickied in this sub forum.

Harbor freight pump $130 with coupon
Change the fitting to npt $4 lowes
3/8" pe tubing $0.30/ft at lowes
Vacuum port max $30 online
Vacuum gauge (optional but suggested) $8-30
Sealant tape $8/roll 35 ft
Bag/peel ply/breather total combine is about $10 / yard.

 

[paczowski123]

Thanks Vumad, I always forget about the stickies when using tapatalk as they are hidden

 

[paczowski123]

So as far as the process goes I just wet it out in place, then cover it in the bagging material and put it under vacuum? I though you had to have some sort of reservoir where they resin gets sucked in and wets the fabrics out at the same time it's being vacuumed.

 

[Yami-Rider]

Yes, that's it. That is what the bleeder/breather fabric is for, absorbs excess resin. Look at that photo i posted, that's everything you need.

 

[paczowski123]

Oh, sorry didn't notice that. How does the vacuum connector seal to the film? Do you use the tape, or is there some sort of seal on the connector/film?

Sorry, just new to this and videos I've watched don't do the best job of showing how it all works.

 

[Schmidty721]

I'm strongly against using carbon for reinforcements in a hull. I feel carbon needs to be installed under vacuum to get good adhesion, and even then I don't like using it for a single layer, etc. Even under vacuum, i'd start with a layer of glass first and then rely on the chemical bond of the resin to adhere the carbon to the glass. Seems like every ski I've seen with issues of delamination in the engine bilge was carbon reinforcement, including my Vision hull with was done "professionally".

 

[Vumad]

So as far as the process goes I just wet it out in place, then cover it in the bagging material and put it under vacuum? I though you had to have some sort of reservoir where they resin gets sucked in and wets the fabrics out at the same time it's being vacuumed.

You are confusing vacuum bagging with vacuum infusion. You should not get anything in your pump unless you are getting absolutely crazy. You can put extra breather at the port of necessary.

 

[paczowski123]

Yeah, once it was clarified that I wet it out first I realized that.

Well, since I suppose I'll just go the glass route, any recommendation on weight glass to use?

 

[Vumad]

Oh, sorry didn't notice that. How does the vacuum connector seal to the film? Do you use the tape, or is there some sort of seal on the connector/film?

Sorry, just new to this and videos I've watched don't do the best job of showing how it all works.

Yellow sealant tape has been recommended but it is new to me. I've done all my bagging with storage bags where everything is built in. Problem is the quality of the bags are low and they leak even new with clothes in them.

The concept is the same so you can make an easy practice part by getting a piece of metal, wax it, then layup glass on it the same way you are used to wet laying. Then lay peel ply, then breather, then put it in the bag and vacuum it down. Let cure. 3 harbor freight bags are about $5 so they work good for this. Put a towel inside to test for leaks, then try to keep resin off of them. It really doesn't even matter if the bag leaks and the panel fails because it's just a concept practice foe the process before you build you own bags.

Now apply of these principals to a custom bag. Leaked it at this step is unacceptable. Try until you can't fail.

Lastly apply all of these principals using a flange method using the metal plate as both the mold and the flange.

This does not have to be an expensive trial process. The only difference between a 6"x6" test panel and a 10'x10' repair is the time you have before the resin kicks (and area for possible leaks).

Building a reinforcement on a hill is exactly the same as vacuum bagging with a flange.

I would encourage you trying one of your test panels to also do a wet layup not under vacuum to compare differences in bulk.

 

[Yami-Rider]

Well, since I suppose I'll just go the glass route, any recommendation on weight glass to use?

S-2 8 harness 14oz cloth, super strong, easy to work with.

 

[paczowski123]

Thanks! I would still just be able to wet this fabric out by hand too if I chose not to vacuum bag it, right?

 

[sneds]

I'm about to reinforce my blaster and this is all great info. Thanks guys.

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