Carbon vs Fiberglass hull

[WB1994]

I would agree if your 200lbs body was inanimate and was rigid like a brick but you are not , you put body english into the ride and if you loose 30lbs your ski is still going to perform the same because your body english is the same. On jetskis and dirtbikes you preload before a jump so when you leave the water or tip of the dirt ramp your actually relieving the machine of your weight. The ski will still jump right about the same as when you were 30lbs heavier. If you were a solid brick that was 200lbs and was carbonfibered to the ski then yes , your (brick) weight would matter.

 

[mthomps]

As most of the weight of the human body are in the torso and lower end of the body and consider the angles our bodies take while riding aggressive the center of the balance point is essentially the same and what I feel is negligible.

 

[Sparkplug]

Preloading is meaning negative gs yes? If so then that only matter jumping. Not preloading the jump, or carving, or setup, or any other aspect of riding. You are correct that gravity does not care how much you weigh, but the force needed to lift you out, does.

Everything falls at the same speed, it doesn't take the same amount of force to lift everything.

 

[WB1994]

And Im not saying losing 30lbs wont help. Im saying the rigid ski loosing 30lbs is far more niticeable.

 

[mthomps]

@Sparkplug will you define preload and loading the pump for me? I'm not sure I understand the meaning of this term.

The benefit of weight on the pump has been documented. There are many threads with posts claiming they prefer a heavier ski in the surf. I'm just trying to understand what you mean but I've searched the term pump loading and do not know what it means.

Perhaps weight of body and boat is preferential in that there are benefits to both. But like you said for most aspects of riding I've found i'm better when I'm lighter.

 

[WB1994]

We prefer heavier skis in the surf because they handle the unevenness of the ocean , surf. They get tossed around less because they are heavier. Which is exactly my point. Heavier means less nimble and less suseptable to ketting kicked around in choppy surf. If you could ride in absolute glass rollers all the time then lighter is better. Just like the heavier SXR handles better in the choppy corners than the lighter SJ (for the most part). If you could have totally flat glass buey runs then wieght would have less effect than hull design.

 

[Sparkplug]

Preloading to me is the motion you do to help relieve your weight from the machine you are riding. Kinda like how some do a bunny hop. Like before a jump on a dirtbike, you shove your weight Dow to load the suspension, so as you hit the lip, you lift off with a boost. Preloading. It's almost the same on a ski, at least for me.

I could be totally wrong here but that's what preloading is to me.

I dont how to describe loading the pump. Sorta like spinning outnn dirt vs hooking up on asphalt.

 

[mthomps]

Like I said I lost 30 pounds between season and my ski rides way better now. This is even before I got my pipe to work. So here is my final argument.

We haven't talked about pivot point yet. When you want to accelerate you lean forward right?As the body loses body fat in its torso and lower extremities first you get the benefit of overall better power to rate ratio plus a more extreme upper torso balance point because the weight lost is mostly on a lower center of gravity. So by losing weight you benefit both from a more responsive ride but more response turning and jumping since you now have more control over how flat your landing is.

 

[WB1994]

@Sparkplug ,Yes thats exactly right , you force your body weight down to apply more preasure to the ski to push the ski lower in the water. The ski then acts like a balloon and wants to get back to the surface. This combined with doing it right at the face of a wave and at the same time you relieve the ski of your weight gets the ski to go higher.

 

[NVJAY775]

More weight on the hull surface is going to create more drag due to more of the hull being in contact with the water (friction loss) along with the ski having to push (displace) more water to move the ski through the water.

Lighter is better no matter how you look at it for the most part. Unless you're riding surf and need to be stable and keep the pump hooked when carving, or leaning the ski over. After watching the O'Side guys ride in person, I totally get the weight in the hull. But I think you as a rider knowing your weight and ability have to know where you want that overall weight to be.

With flatwater lighter is just sweet. I weigh 165 ish. When I had my -5 SF carbon Badass I loved it, but I was a bit too light to keep the pump hooked when carving. The back of the hull is wide, which when you lay the ski over the pump tunnel will be further out of the water, taking away from hookup. But!! SF's are friggin rock solid in the hull strength dept. After I sold mine, it got the holy crap beat out of it and only took on minor issues from the repeated beatings. And if I weighed more, it never would have been a problem.

 

[naticen]

I kind of skimmed it and I can't lose 30 pounds so I'm thinking backwards. If I had to put a 30 pound weight belt on me or in the ski, I'd choose the ski.

Therefore rider weight weighs more and and there is no reason for a spare tire on a jet ski.

 

[WB1994]

The only reason I would chose he ski taking the weight instead of wearing a belt is because Im not used to carying an extra 30lbs. It would kick my ass. Thats like strapping four gallons to your back. But if I was used to the weight , as in , if it felt no different to me than walking around all day on my normal weight I'd strap on the weight in a second because more times than not during riding I relieve the ski of my weight during certain manuvers and if that weight was a permanent part of the ski it wouldnt matter if I relieved my ski of my weight , its still a waterlogged X2.

 

[Fro Diesel]

Or how about actually tuning a bpipe instead of just bolting the b on.

Tough to make up for lack of experience by sheading a few lbs.

 

[Fro Diesel]

Weight a minute hair. The best rider I have ever scene was Joe Kenney and he is know small dood.

 

[BruceSki]

Dafuq did I just read?

You guys know it's not winter right? Go ride and quit worrying who's a little light on their feet.

Flatwater guys want lightweight. Surf guys don't care.

A 701 and a 400 pound RTR boat flips just fine for me. No trim either. Handles buoys great too.

 

[subhard]

How about all you nerds lose weight AND buy a lightweight carbon hull (gasp). Lol. I'm 6' and weigh 165. I'm not losing any weight like plenty of other dudes here. It's a stupid argument.

 

[Dalton]

can anyone else chime in on this? I've always wondered about how the stiffness of carbon would affect long term reliability. Assume surf riding for the sake of this discussion

When a heavy glass layup fails it's usually a localized failure. When a heavy carbon layup fails it's usually going to be catastrophic, huge cracks and splintering.

 

[Fro Diesel]

What is this HEAVY carbon layup? Is that like a nearly flightless bird?

If its a heavy layup why are you using carbon?

 

[air blair]

Truly, go glass. Carbon is aerospace technology. Spectra fabrics are great for impact strength. Ive tried em. Pro freestyle in mind is really the only reason to go carbon or to show how much money you can throw in a ski or perhaps try a tripple flip off a double overhead wave. Thats my 2 sense

 

[mthomps]

Winter or not I think the discussion of the physics of riding is 40x more interesting than what mod next threads and I think the concept of overall weight verses hull material vs weight is a good one. Since this thread originated as a question about materials i thin all l the proceeding posts were warranted and educational.