CG Racing- My Situation and My Feedback.

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thegoldenboy

RN Surgery... soon
Location
Toronto
I agree there is always 2 sides of a story, but we can clearly see that it was incorrectly built and measured.

As a professional that is inexcusable, you fix it, you pay for it and you (as a builder) loearn from it and move on.

I can't count how many skis I used to toast on our Ptex machine (snow skiing for all yall southern folk) machine sucked and used to stick too (not my fault, but my machinery, inturn my fault).
Bubbled a few bases, but everytime we did you had to man up to the customer and make it right, or offer him something better (newer model, half the time the ski I wrecked wasn't current anymore) at cost.

Customer is happy on new 07 boards, shop doesn't lose a dime. Sometimes I felt as if I was doing people a favour. :griin:
 

tom21

havin fun
Location
clearwater FL
saki I agree with what you are saying. I think most people are just curious as to how something came to be. as a mechanic its my job, my quest, my reason for being to find out what went wrong and then fix it. you can't fix the problem if you don't know what it is.

I don't know either of these guys but it would sure make me feel better about a fellow mechanic saying'"yeah I went on a three day bender and I guess somewhere in there I did some work at the shop' honestly I don't remember"

maybe he didn't have the opportunity to do all the work- there might be more to the story we don't know- sometimes customers want everything done to apoint and then they will handle the rest, and screw it up and blame the builder who actually didn't "build" any of it. If I send you the pushrod tubes you ask for and they are wrong but you put them in and the oil leaks all out and seizes the motor- is it my fault?

we don't really know what happened and its wrong for us to assume anything or accept "facts" we are given. as the "facts" are different from whatever viewpoint your seeing em from. it looks bad from where I sit but then I can only see the tip of the iceberg as far as the big picture goes.

not saying either party is wrong or right- just saying we weren't there and it would be nice to have both perspectives. but in the end its two guys slammin each other and us scratchin our heads.

crap now I don't knwo if this guy is a good mechanic or not.? and now I want to hear from him so I can kinda get a feel how this went down. makes no difference to me as I will be the only one building my motors -ever. but I may need to have some things done that I can't do myself and having a good list of quality guys to go to is nice- especially when your first couple of choices are always slammed or you want to help a smaller shop out with biz. whatever.

P.s. I love you- you hairy freak.:buttkick::lmao:
 

Vumad

Super Hero, with a cape!
Location
St. Pete, FL
maybe he just does not want to get into an internet pissing match?

in my opinion, this guy had a negative experience with CG.

he posted about it. that's what this forum is for right?

dont hate CG too much b/c he doesnt feel like spending his time arguing on a message board all day.

I was one of the people ready to hear the other side of the story. I didn't care too much until CG made a snide comment. If you don't want in on the piss match, keep your mouth closed. He shouldn't have said anything, but his comment about being glad he doesn't have to deal with this customer again makes it sound like he's saying "I made a mistake, ignored it, it festered, boy am I glad it went away on it's own."

I've delt with my fair share of shady customers, who have made up stories, written letters, and posted on forums things that were completely fabricated. I understand that sometimes people get upset and their frustration distorts reality, but I have never once gone onto a forum they posted on to say, "There's two sides of this story, all I can say is I'm glad I don't have to deal with them again."

It just sounds like ********, it makes the business look bad. Until his post, I didn't care much. I'm a broke SOB that has to do the work myself, so I suppose CG or anyone else wouldn't care about my opinion anyway.
 

Big Kahuna

Administrator
Location
Tuscaloosa, AL
So, CG assembled the motor



jetworks MACHINED the motor..........




doesnt the biggest problem lie within the machinework? :popworm:


granted, there were a couple of other things wrong (forgetting the gaskets, leakdown etc..)......



.......but wouldnt the squish have been set by JW as well????

Theoretically yes........ But Chuck was asked to check everything........ this is a pretty easy check, just poke some solder down there and measure.......
 

butti

lone wolf
Location
F-XTC
Theoretically yes........ But Chuck was asked to check everything........ this is a pretty easy check, just poke some solder down there and measure.......

we could sit here and split hairs all day:Banane37: isnt that what chuck paid jetworks for?



this is why i agree with many others on here that this feedback section is generally bad for the x
 

Big Kahuna

Administrator
Location
Tuscaloosa, AL
we could sit here and split hairs all day:Banane37: isnt that what chuck paid jetworks for?



this is why i agree with many others on here that this feedback section is generally bad for the x

ok, so Chuck paid Art to do all the machine work...... Chuck builds motor and installs..........

Owner picks up ski and takes it to the water........ ski cranks but does not run good.......... Owner calls Chuck......... Chuck does nothing.......... Owner removes head and finds that instead of a 4 mil stroker crank, he figures out that a -4mil stroker crank was used, piston is about 1/4" low at TDC.......... So yeah, Art made a mistake in building the crank........ but he did not build the engine, Chuck did....... Should Chuck not still have some responsibility to check to make sure that everything is correct before owner picks the ski up??? (this was a hypothetical).........

So to answer your question.......... I would say Art had some liability, but I would bet he is taking care of that part himself since the motor has been at his shop....... the issue here is not with Art, but with Chuck since Chuck did the build and install.......... Did not check squish clearance, did not do a leakdown test..... plus what ever else was missing or wrong..........

This is not a matter of splitting hairs...........


personally... I like having feedback......... god knows I have taken chances with companies over the past few years without knowing much about them other than what I learned about on the internet............. good thing I know about waterdawg otherwise I might have decided in all my hood testing to sell the last hood I was running and give his a try................. (I have tried several hoods in the past, trial and error) or sell my X Metal Pole and place and order for the Billet Pole........... Glad the internet gives some good experiences........
 

butti

lone wolf
Location
F-XTC
I would like to preface this by sayinig that I am not usually one to publicly express my concern or disgust of a situation using a medium, such as X-h20, however due to a recent unfortunate transaction I feel as though this is the best way to express my concern, not only to the person responsible, but also to any other individuals who may have had similar problems.

I'm sure this will spark some interesting discussion and comments and I hope that people understand that I am not here to try and personally attack someone or some company, rather I am here in hopes that either the situation can be remedied or at minimum this person understands that the way they conduct business is unacceptable to me.

At the end of last season I tore down my boat to rebuild it and at that point I decided I would have a motor built for me. Long story short I decided to go with the Jetworks 4mm Stroker set-up and purchase it through CG Racing. Being a start-up business owner myself and a promoter of the sport I thought that it was a nice idea to go through a small company that was in my region (for sake of assistance with tuning and such) to build the motor. I understood that I could have gone straight to Art at Jetworks in CA but I wanted to give the local shop the chance to make a couple dollars while affordinig me the boutique and local customer service that I feel is important. So I purchased the Motor, Carbs, Reeds, Valves, etc all through Chuck. With plans of making the Daytona trip I felt I gave more than enough time to get the work done and have it sent back to me.

I recieved the motor just in time for Daytona and was reasonably happy with everything. Seing as though all that Chuck had to do was assemble the motor and bolt everything up and check it I thought I was all good to go.

I got the motor along with a call from Chuck to inform me of a few issues. He forgot the Carb to Manifold gaskets as well as not installing but sending me (as extras) the ADA dome o-rings. Then when asked about the leak down test that he said he would perform (which he didnt) he told me that hes "batting a hundred" and for me not to worry about it. Now I was a bit concerned because his Job was to properyl assemble the motor that Art machined, expoxied, ported etc.. but I was very anxious about Daytona and to try this motor out that he sold me on. Bolted it in and it fired right up. Sounded great out of water. I had checked the compression ( I had it set up as a pump/race mix) and it seemed a little high (232lbs on my guage) and chuck assured me that he checked the squish and that the high compression would give it some awesome hit.

In Daytona it ran like crap. On top it seemed clean but ran like junk on the bottom, always shutting off at low RPM....I asked Chuck to take it for a ride and he told me he didnt have any time. This started my chase for the problem....carb jetting, ignitions, coils, pump sealing, air leaks, higher octane fuel....and on down the line. I spent a lot of money replacing electrical parts, switching out the plugs everytime I rode it, $6/gallon straight race gas....All the while chuck assured me it was simply carb problems and i just need to get it tuned up right.

To make a really long story a little shorter I later ran into some serious problems. I noticed everytime I rode that the plugs had soot around them...thinking the coil was arcing I replaced it and it continued to occur...Then I rattled the Jug loose one day and Chuck told me I probably didnt torque them down (I was confident that you shouldnt need to re-torque head and girdle bolts after every single ride) but I accepted my error and bolted the not so smooth jug down to the not soo smooth cases (due to the loose rattling). Then I realized the thing was rattling plugs loose (the cause of the soot) and chuck again told me that you need to keep tightening them etc...IM NOT AN IDIOT but i listened to the reputable builder. Then the last time I rode it I actually blew the center out of one of the plugs. Pulled the head off again and started noticing pings all over the pistons and domes. Randy at Watcon confirmed that I had some serious detonation going on. I called Chuck again and he promised he checked the squish. I said F-it and told him I would just pay someone to haul my boat out to him in MI. He was near impossible to get ahold and I could tell he was sick of me calling him but nonetheless I setup a meeting point. He was gonna "tune it up" for me. Unfortunately Chuck was in an accident a few days after my boat was to get there. I thought the thing was MIA until someone informed me of his accident. He did end up calling me to tell me the boat was fine and that he was doing alright and had a guy that was working for him that could handle it. The boat never ended up making it to Chuck (he was going to grab it from his buddy where i had it delivered to) and I had to haul out to the middle of MI to pick it up one night from an airport hangar in the back of someones truck. Nobody touched my ski and I was back to square one with some Gas expense and a pain in the behind and a messed up motor.

I ended up buying a stock '06 short block from Butch Musick (it runs great).

My motor never had the squish checked...The pistons actually stamped their part number up in both domes. The squish made the cylinder rattle loose, the squish spun sprak plugs out and the squish tore my brand new stuff up. If there is one thing that I feel any engine builder needs to be sure of when assembling a motor is that it doesnt leak and the squish is correct. He assured me of one and concerned me with neglecting to do the other.

Art at Jetworks has my motor and concluded that due to some light machining of the cylinder it needed a thicker base gasket. He has been extremely receptive to me and is helping me put this thing back togatehr as cheaply as possible. I really appreciate his time and speedy help.

I went through Chuck because I knew a busy guy like Art would be hard to bother..now I realize if Art would have built the motor I wouldnt have had to bother him because it would have been right the first time. I should have been a little more casutious when I finally met chuck in Daytona and all the boats "he built" to bring down there were all slopped togatehr (some missing chin pads, others with no turf anywhere on them) The summer is near completion and I am still 4mm-less although It should be on its way next week form CA.

Still no response from Chuck after many attempts.

I want to reiterate that im not here to bash anyone however this was by far the worst transaction I have had in this sport and it cost me a lot of my hard earned money and is continuing to cost me more. Im sure Chucks margine of profit was small on this deal and I understand that. But the way I see it is that when you advertise your business and your services you need to back them and do the Job that people paid you to do. And when you make a mistake it is your responsibly to remedy the situation.


To all the respectable engine guys out there, including Art and everyone else who makes a living building motors.....I apologize for not buying direct through you guys.

It was a good lesson learned........

Sorry for the novel but thanks for your time.

I enjoyed meeting many of you in Daytona and am looking forward to January :wiggle:

Mike Widdes




im glad art is helping and i agree that it should have been chuck but to me the way what i highlighted above reads is that still nobody has taken responsibility


as for the feedback forum its your website not mine,you guys are free to run it as you wish.it is only my opinion.i dont see how the airing of all this dirty laundry has any positive affect on this site
 

SuperJETT

So long and thanks for all the fish
Location
none
as for the feedback forum its your website not mine,you guys are free to run it as you wish.it is only my opinion.i dont see how the airing of all this dirty laundry has any positive affect on this site


I'm not sure why you directed that at him.

However, this forum is for people to have a place to vent hopefully in a respectful manner concerns or bad experiences. People have a right to do that, and also have a right to hear of other experiences to base their decisions on.

He asked me if he should post this without me knowing who it was about, and I said go ahead. I would say that to anyone, no matter who is involved.
 
I think Feedback Sections are great. Most of the time people only report Negative Feedback, but not on this site. I always see Positive Feedbacks pop up. I definitely think the positives far outnumber the negatives so I don't think threads like this discredit this site at all. I do think it is the Admin's responsibility to ensure that Negative Feedbacks remain respectful and fair to both parties, but I personally think the admins here do this very well.
 

AlbanyMotorsports

Cru is Rad
Location
Chicago
Theoretically yes........ But Chuck was asked to check everything........ this is a pretty easy check, just poke some solder down there and measure.......


Art simply ported , epoxied, bored, supplied crank....etc.....Chuck was the person that assembled the motor for the first time. And I didnt pay Art....Chuck did. Wasnt Arts fault...he told me after he looked at it that the base gasket was what it needed and that he prefers to assemble his motors himself but instead agreed to sell thru Chuck.
 

AlbanyMotorsports

Cru is Rad
Location
Chicago
ok, so Chuck paid Art to do all the machine work...... Chuck builds motor and installs..........

Owner picks up ski and takes it to the water........ ski cranks but does not run good.......... Owner calls Chuck......... Chuck does nothing.......... Owner removes head and finds that instead of a 4 mil stroker crank, he figures out that a -4mil stroker crank was used, piston is about 1/4" low at TDC.......... So yeah, Art made a mistake in building the crank........ but he did not build the engine, Chuck did....... Should Chuck not still have some responsibility to check to make sure that everything is correct before owner picks the ski up??? (this was a hypothetical).........

So to answer your question.......... I would say Art had some liability, but I would bet he is taking care of that part himself since the motor has been at his shop....... the issue here is not with Art, but with Chuck since Chuck did the build and install.......... Did not check squish clearance, did not do a leakdown test..... plus what ever else was missing or wrong..........

This is not a matter of splitting hairs...........


personally... I like having feedback......... god knows I have taken chances with companies over the past few years without knowing much about them other than what I learned about on the internet............. good thing I know about waterdawg otherwise I might have decided in all my hood testing to sell the last hood I was running and give his a try................. (I have tried several hoods in the past, trial and error) or sell my X Metal Pole and place and order for the Billet Pole........... Glad the internet gives some good experiences........

I couldnt have said that better myself and as I mentioned before Art has been very receptive and not charging me any labor to re build this motor. :biggthumpup: Althought the parts price adds up quick
 
I couldnt have said that better myself and as I mentioned before Art has been very receptive and not charging me any labor to re build this motor. :biggthumpup: Althought the parts price adds up quick

Wow:bigeyes: Art really is a good guy. That's really nice of him. He really doesn't even have to do that for you.
 

butti

lone wolf
Location
F-XTC
Wow:bigeyes: Art really is a good guy. That's really nice of him. He really doesn't even have to do that for you.

thats very nice but its sad that he has to even pay for the parts.it seems to me that chuck/art or both should be taking care of it all.had they done this to begin with then the whole situation wouldnt be being debated on a a public forum by a bunch of third party people

hell maybe we would be talking about it ........in the positive feedback forum:tomato:
 

njfl

X-H2
jetskifever,did jetworks machine the domes for this motor or were they off the shelf parts?

I am seeing a lot of responses/questions that appear to be trying to point blame at Art here. All of these questions are irrelevant and meaningless. Even if Art did make a machining mistake (which he didn't), Chuck was chosen as the guy to build the motor and any of these problems should have been found by Chuck and worked out between Chuck and Art prior to JetskiFever even receiving his motor. That is how Chuck makes his money, outsourcing machining and doing the labor himself instead of paying Art to assemble the motor.
 
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