Other Computer Aided Handlpole Design

[eeerieski]

This is a branch off from sx sxi sxr Aluminum Handle pole over at pwc2d
I have access to Autodesk Inventor and have been playing around with some pole design which also includes Finite Element Analysis strength and weight optimization. Any positive or negative comments relevant to the thread will be appreciated.

How many variations would be needed for a pole?
300/400/440/550sx
650sx
750sx
800sxr
fx1
snsj
rnsj pre?
rnsj post?
Also
stock length/-2/-4/-6

For all of those I would need pole curve radius, hinge bushing outer diameter, distance between bushing flanges, the turnplate mounting setup, turnplate stop, steering cable mounting method & bracket. Kawasaki poles could go without a separate chin-pad, Yamaha poles would need a chinpad due to the inverted steering end. I am aiming for the pole to be light enough to not need a pole spring due to the added complexity, breather tubes could go along side the electrical and steering through the holes near the bottom. Production will likely never happen, I have no means.

For your viewing pleasure:
Conditions are: Pinned at the bushing surfaces, Torque on handlebars ~ 125ft*lbs modeled as 500lbs directed up 1.5" from center of turnplate and 500lbs down -1.5" from center of turnplate (imagine trying to twist the pole along it's axis/roll the ski over). Length from pivot to center ~30". Material is 6061-T6 Aluminum and of course not set in stone. The I before a letter stands for Iteration. Displacements in the model images are 100x actual.

I1 5.35lbs MaxDisplacement .150"

I2 5.79lbs MaxDisplacement .053"

I3 4.72lbs MaxDisplacement .178"

I4 4.84lbs MaxDisplacement .113"

I5 4.25lbs MaxDisplacement .282"

I6 4.30lbs MaxDisplacement .245"

I7 4.31lbs MaxDisplacement .240"

 

[Boris]

Don't quite understand the bit about the breather tubes and cables.
Also, how about adding some buoyancy to the thing. That is the one thing lacking from all the AM poles.

 

[eeerieski]

Don't quite understand the bit about the breather tubes and cables.
Also, how about adding some buoyancy to the thing. That is the one thing lacking from all the AM poles.

Sorry about that one part, look below. The 2 round holes are drains and the elongated holes are for cable(s) and electrical. As for the boyancy, where would it go that wouldn't ruin the aesthetics or functionality of the pole? I've been thinking a bit about the material, whatever I pick should have better than average salt water corrosion resistance when compared to other aluminum. 5052 series aluminum is looking better than 6061.

 

[WFO Speedracer]

That is a sweet looking pole, it does look much better than most of the similar poles I have seen people make and try to sell here.

 

[Waternut]

Cool looking pole and I'm sure it'll sell if it's light enough and cheap enough. However, your forces aren't acting in the critical directions. I can only make educated guesses on the physical forces exerted but I've only seen one pole break at the steering mount and even then it didn't break from a twisting action but a downward torque. Most break down near the pivot from a sideways pancake, landing backwards with pole extended (only on poles without a limiting strap), or just aft of where it hits the hood (most common). Pin your model at the pivot point and apply your torque sideways uniformly up the pole to simulate a failed barrel roll. Next pin the model at the pivot point and 3/4 up the pole (to simulate where it hits the hood) and then apply around 300-400lbs to where the turn plate mounts. This last case is the one that kills most poles and the one that most people do constantly because the pole slams down on the hood after each jump.

 

[snowxr]

I like that you're trying a high tech approach, but please look at the Goose pole fiasco before you decide not to have a spring, pivot stop, and clean cable routing.

 

[eeerieski]

waternut, after I fix some of the things I was modeling (I was using crude extrusions rather than what should have been lofts) I will try those loading conditions. (overextended pole, extended pole side pancake, and pole slam against the hood)

snowxr, If you could kindly provide a link to the "fiasco" I would appreciate it, a search revealed nothing.

 

[Big Kahuna]

Seach:

Team Bill
Goose
Highroller (There will be threads that link to the Goose/Team Bill threads)


You could notch the bottom tube with a slotted hole for the cables, Right Side tube have the steering cable only, Left side have the start/stop and throttle cable. There is not option to do a breather, but until Xmetal came out with there poles, poles did not come with a breather option. People modified their AC Poles for a breather tube, but you had to cut a hole in the bottom and add a scupper to it.

 

[Waternut]

The goose pole looks similar to your design. Some people really liked them but they were inconsistent to say the least. Some were straight and others looked like they were built by a monkey. The ones that were good still had issues with the throttle and steering cables binding up because of the sharp angle coming out of the bottom of the pole. It looks like yours comes out of the side which would alleviate the binding but may just cut the wires and cables instead.

 

[Big Kahuna]

cant draw, but I think with the Goosechit pole it was a hole drilled, hence, major binding, But wiht a sloted hole setup it may releive that binding issues. I am not a fan of the dual pole design, Even the RRP's do not do anything for me. Only way I would run one is if I was still racing and used the adjustible function for tuning..........

Tight course on a small lake, run the pole shorter,
Rough Surf Race, run the pole longer.

 

[eeerieski]

Cable binding does seem to be a concern doesn't it, The intended slot cut for the cables would of course be ground with a die grinder (or milled with a cnc mill and roundover bit, inside and out) so there would be no sharp edges for important things to chafe against. Or Plastic/rubber chafe protection could be glued around the slot. Notice my slots are cut 45 degrees inward from the bottom allowing the cables to exit the pole nearer to each-other and nearer the pole's hinge point resulting in less change of distance between the slots and hull opening when the pole is run through it's range of motion.

 

[BombThreat]

Cool designs. For the cable issue, you could make the slots in the tubs a little higher and add a cover to the bottom portion of the pole to clean things up.

While your drawning, here's a different idea. Make the chin pad area adjustable to tilt up or down a few degrees with some kind of quick locking mechanism. It would help with poles fitting different hoods better and another adjustment for user riding comfort.

 

[Big Kahuna]

Cool designs. For the cable issue, you could make the slots in the tubs a little higher and add a cover to the bottom portion of the pole to clean things up.

While your drawning, here's a different idea. Make the chin pad area adjustable to tilt up or down a few degrees with some kind of quick locking mechanism. It would help with poles fitting different hoods better and another adjustment for user riding comfort.

Great Idea, but it would create slop plus additional weight at the top of the pole.

 

[BombThreat]

Good points, You could just move it up or down with some capped hex bolts with a slot machined in it.

 

[Boris]

As for the boyancy, where would it go that wouldn't ruin the aesthetics

Guess this would be another "looks over function" mod than.
Oh well, I was hoping for a truly innovative pole design that not only improved looks but also functionality.

 

[eeerieski]

Guess this would be another "looks over function" mod than.
Oh well, I was hoping for a truly innovative pole design that not only improved looks but also functionality.

Have any suggestions on where to add buoyancy? I do ave an open mind but try to keep in mind marketing at the same time... DOH buoyancy would be a marketing point...

Also I posted this over on the X
To wrap CF around the poles and fill with closed cell foam would work, Costs would go up and as far as I know, the west 2lb foam would work fine as it wouldn't be structural and would not be submerged continuously therefore being a viable filler.

In my opinion if the tubes were closer it would appear less strong. They may need to be moved in .25" each side because of weld beads anyways.

I'm going to shoot down CF as a tube material as this will be along the lines of other budget poles. CF is much stronger per pound but much much more expensive per pound not to mention how to join the CF to the other parts. I'm sure you've seen other people try to make CF poles and on a small hobby scale they just aren't viable. I would market this more towards a rec rider, not a pro or racer.

Let me remind everyone everything I have is digital for now and for at least a year more to come (unless someone wants blueprints, but don't ask until I post some to see). I'll be graduating college soon with a BS in mechanical engineering, getting a firm hold on life is a priority

 

[Big Kahuna]

Fill the upper parts of the tubes with styrofoam (like Kawi uses in their hulls)

 

[eeerieski]

Why I love computers...

Using the information from previous iterations, I made the top plate twice as thick (.125" to .25") and changed the tube wall thickness from .125" to .08" resulting in a pole weight of only 3.42lbs with a deflection of .133" (same loading as all the others). The fun part would be finding the .08 wall aluminum tubing. If anybody knows common tube thicknesses for aluminum tubing at 2"OD I would appreciate it, thinner than .125 is all I care about. Other loading conditions coming shortly after I fixed the modeling issue. Check out that curve of the tube, required me a few hours to figure out how to model it correctly using a surface loft with 2 tangent conditions and extrude to the loft. In real life the cut is perpendicular to the surface at all times and can therefore be cut with a template wrapped around the tube and a jigsaw.

 

[chriselmore_1]

since yyour spending so much time on this maybe do something about the ugly mounting base

 

[eeerieski]

since yyour spending so much time on this maybe do something about the ugly mounting base

You know what they say about those who assume... please clarify.