Dual pipes

[FX1 696]

Ever since reading the two stroke tuning handbook and learning about Walter Kaaden I’ve always been interested in expansion chambers. The concept being, you can get a lot of performance out of a single pipe, but maximum performance results from properly designed chambers dedicated to each cylinder. A few examples below.



Has any research been done to see if this is possible in the standup world? I’ve found somebody on YouTube jam a 951 into a seadoo x4 hull with full pipes, and the snowmobile world gets pretty creative with pipe design to make it fit.




First obvious theory as to why this has never been done, I’m guessing there’s just not enough room in a standup hull?

Second theory is that these racing applications have a limited CC figure, so they’re squeezing extra HP out of any area possible. While in the standup world, if you want more hp, just buy a bigger engine...

Third theory, no company wants to do the R&D to fit dual pipes, while there is no market for it since everybody has different engine/hull combinations. That being said, in the future will we see hulls specifically designed to allow room in the nose for dual lay down pipes?

What are your thoughts on why this has never been experimented with before? Does anybody have knowledge of this research being done by factory, tnt, lay down pipes etc? Any prototypes made?

Brett

 

[DeMan686]

Holly hell those are amazing!!


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[Big Kahuna]

Problem is space. TBM use to have a dual pipe for the sxr.

 

[DeMan686]

I’d love to see that!!!


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[DAG]

Throwing more parts at it to get HP is not the answer. Have you seen the pro's? They buy the same parts we do but can actually tweek and tune. 99% of the people here cant tune a single pipe and you want to give them a duel lol

 

[OtherDonnieGuy]

Twin pipes have been done. Twin pipes are for top end (high rpm) hp gains. Single pipe is what we want for freestyle/rec use, in the lower rpm range.

Also, you would have 2 pipes to worry about breaking instead of one. That's enough to keep them away from me in a watercraft! Lol

Edit: if you notice, all of those pictures are for high rpm drag applications.

 

[DeMan686]

This is what you need!!!!

IMG]//uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181102/6b9dccba2e3327de4e07386bc2cab256.jpg[/IMG]


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[FX1 696]

Problem is space. TBM use to have a dual pipe for the sxr.

Here's a picture I found for those interested *cough* DeMan686 try not to cream yourself

 

[DeMan686]

Good god man I need that in my life!!! Don’t think will fit in a x2 lol


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[FX1 696]

Throwing more parts at it to get HP is not the answer. Have you seen the pro's? They buy the same parts we do but can actually tweek and tune. 99% of the people here cant tune a single pipe and you want to give them a duel lol

I'm not claiming to be a tuning expert, I'm just here to learn why it's never been experimented with by the pro racers. If Kommander made a hull with an upper deck specifically designed to fit a set of dual lay down pipes, why wouldn't they?

And note about the pros using same parts consumers do - that may or may not be the case in the jetski world, but I'm talking about the powersports industry as a whole. All my pictures consist of ATV's, Snowmobiles, motorcycles, friggin outboard boat engines lol. Pro mod snocross sleds used to be a competition of who's mechanic could build a better machine.... As of 2017 they're limited to stock 600cc engine and are able to experiment with pipes exclusively.

 

[Jr.]

Seperating chambers does have a huge advantage over a collected chamber. In our world, space confinments are the limiting factor. Very rare to see it! Back in the pro mod 1200 days I tuned mutiple triple piped GPR’s
Talk about a tremdous ammount of work, let alone difficulties keeping couplers and misc components connected!
The carbe were burried under the chambers, thus several hrs work to do a simple jet change!
Ahhhh Those were the days! Not!

 

[Jr.]

I'm not claiming to be a tuning expert, I'm just here to learn why it's never been experimented with by the pro racers. If Kommander made a hull with an upper deck specifically designed to fit a set of dual lay down pipes, why wouldn't they?

And note about the pros using same parts consumers do - that may or may not be the case in the jetski world, but I'm talking about the powersports industry as a whole. All my pictures consist of ATV's, Snowmobiles, motorcycles, friggin outboard boat engines lol. Pro mod snocross sleds used to be a competition of who's mechanic could build a better machine.... As of 2017 they're limited to stock 600cc engine and are able to experiment with pipes exclusively.

Here is another reason, getting all that added power to the water? Jet pumps are very inefficent compaired to any other form of powersport drive system. Even tracks on a sled hook up way better than a pump.

Most here on these boards dont follow the pro race scene. There is stuff being run by the pros that in never known in the private sector. I have done tech at worlds in the past. Some of the stuff I inspected were marvels!
Now most all that has moved on to 4strokes. Very little improvment these days in 2 smokes.
Pro freestyle is our last saving grace

 

[FX1 696]

Most here on these boards dont follow the pro race scene. There is stuff being run by the pros that in never known in the private sector. I have done tech at worlds in the past. Some of the stuff I inspected were marvels!

@DAG you hear this?

"Have you seen the pro's? They buy the same parts we do but can actually tweek and tune." - You haven't followed many forms of racing, my friend.

 

[eastbay]

Ive raced against a TBM twin piped SXR and it was fast! but always working on it.

 

[DAG]

@DAG you hear this?

"Have you seen the pro's? They buy the same parts we do but can actually tweek and tune." - You haven't followed many forms of racing, my friend.

Racing is not my cup of tea, you are correct my friend I have not followed racing my friend. I just assumed you were talking freeride/freestye my friend since you didnt mention racing in your post my friend and your avatar and handle is a fx1 my friend. shame on me for making that assumption my friend. Friends?

 

[FX1 696]

Racing is not my cup of tea, you are correct my friend I have not followed racing my friend. I just assumed you were talking freeride/freestye my friend since you didnt mention racing in your post my friend and your avatar and handle is a fx1 my friend. shame on me for making that assumption my friend. Friends?

That's actually pretty funny - and I didn't mean to sound demeaning. Apologies for that. Friends at last

 

[Quinc]

I am sure @tntsuperjet could give an answer as to why the duals never really took off. I think @waxhead tried stuffing 2x gpr pipes in a waveblaster with a 701?

A few skis have had dual pipes. So maybe the profits just weren't there to justify building more?

JS550
SXI
SXR
Seadoo 951
Probably more I dont know about?
https://www.ebay.com/itm/253782351016?ul_noapp=true

 

[Vortex]

Single pipe is all you need. The few who are still racing mod twins will tell you that.even With peak hp getting closer to 200 a single chamber still has no problem getting the job done.

However if the hull was roomy enough to make it practical to work on, twin pipes would make more sense.

 

[badvinny]

Here's a picture I found for those interested *cough* DeMan686 try not to cream yourself

View attachment 365043

Like Jr. said, can you see how fun a jetting change on this?

 

[FX1 696]

Like Jr. said, can you see how fun a jetting change on this?

Obviously that would be a PITA to work on, but when I had the idea of creating this thread, I was picturing something similar to B Pipe manifold and headpipe, then just two B pipes stacked on top of each other merging into a waterbox with two inlets. In that situation, the pipes wouldn't take up much more space than a single does.