Freestyle Engine blew-10 hours into it- who is @ fault?

swapmeet

swapmeet

Brotastic
Location
Arlington TX
@tntsuperjet
I've brought this discussion up with a group of riders, some who've been racing etc for years.
While there is some agreement that leaving fuel out for months can degrade stability, (water, octance loss etc) Nobody is buying your statements below.

tntsuperjet said:
Gas looses octane very quickly exposed to ultraviolet light
91 is 87 in 3-4 hours of exposed light. That means even in none direct sunlight.
Remember a solar panel works on cloudy rainy day because light still gets through. Yes it's less light but still damages your gas.
Clear gas cans are the number one engine killer world wide.
But not all colored gas cans are UV stable.
So have a black out bag made for your cans.
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I'm not doubting the information, and i'm always willing to learn more... But I can't find anything that supports these statements whatsoever.
 
Scraggly

Scraggly

Location
hhh
I wouldn't question his info. It's from experience and extensive testing. Just cause Google doesn't show it doesn't mean it isn't true. I covered my can that was already in the shade soon after his post. Just think of it as extra insurance. I run 110 and can't risk deto with my compression.
 
Ducky

Ducky

Back in the game!
Location
Charlotte, NC
McDog said:
Is it just uv or is heat an issue too? Sitting in a hot Georgia storage unit a problem?
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I read that heat can also be an issue because it can cause some additives to evaporate, which can cause detonation. I think the moral of the story is to keep your fuel as cool and out of the light as possible.
 
OCD Solutions

OCD Solutions

Original, Clean and Dependable Solutions
Location
Rentz, GA
http://www.vpracingfuels.com/index.html?Action=Question&ID=1979

How long will VP fuels last in one of your plastic fuel containers?

I would personally use it within 2 to 4 weeks. A plastic container is designed for fuel transfer, not storage. If you are going racing for a week or weekend, it's OK to put your fuel in the plastic containers. I just recommend that when you get to your shop you put the fuel back in the drum and seal it. This will keep it fresh. Plastic is porous. Even though the liquid fuel doesn't leak out, the light ends of the fuel can evaporate out of the plastic. Plus the sun's UV rays can penetrate plastic and the lead may drop out. Again, plastic containers are designed for transfer, not storage.
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OCD Solutions

OCD Solutions

Original, Clean and Dependable Solutions
Location
Rentz, GA
Most of these references specify that it "drops" the lead out so wouldn't this mostly apply to Avgas and racing fuels that utilize lead to achieve their octane?

Does it even apply to pump gas?
 
swapmeet

swapmeet

Brotastic
Location
Arlington TX
Theres just not a lot of info... I live in Texas. So even if I keep my fuel in my insulated garage, its gonna be over 100* in there. But at the lake I have clear fuel jugs... been using them for years and years, leave them right out in the sun. Most everyone does.

I dunno. I really want to know more. I've read all the links above before asking him to elaborate. Nothing addresses what he's talking about.
 
V

Vortex

Location
Southeast
I don't doubt tim's advice, fuel in the sun is not good. However i don't think it will drop octane quite that drastically. Race fuel leaded or not is not as volatile as 87. I think it would take an extreme amount of sun exposure to really harm race fuel...87 is a different story it will evaporate much faster as it is meant to combust at lower cyl pressures.

Pump gas is less stable than race gas. Many people think of this in the opposite way.
 
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H

Half flip95

Formerly pondracer95
Location
Lake Havasu City AZ
swapmeet said:
Theres just not a lot of info... I live in Texas. So even if I keep my fuel in my insulated garage, its gonna be over 100* in there. But at the lake I have clear fuel jugs... been using them for years and years, leave them right out in the sun. Most everyone does.

I dunno. I really want to know more. I've read all the links above before asking him to elaborate. Nothing addresses what he's talking about.
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i might be wrong about this but i think you have to get the motor hot for detonation to occur. cruising around the lake on your smart phone posting about how skeptical you are of everything thing you see on the X isnt really a good test of the UV effect on octane rating
 
swapmeet

swapmeet

Brotastic
Location
Arlington TX
pondracer95 said:
i might be wrong about this but i think you have to get the motor hot for detonation to occur. cruising around the lake on your smart phone posting about how skeptical you are of everything thing you see on the X isnt really a good test of the UV effect on octane rating
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I wish I could spend as much time riding as I did posting on the X...

But seriously... i'm asking serious questions. Being sincere and polite. WTF did I do to you?
 
tntsuperjet

tntsuperjet

Tntperformance-engineering.com
Location
Georgetown ca
I got a couple pm asking me if I would give more details.
I am doing this on my phone without glasses so my spelling and grammar maybe crap.
I am gonna try to do this in a easy way to understand so some of the technical terms are not correct but this way you can better understand how it works.

Gas is made up of many added compounds, when you don't have a pure liquid. Meaning anything blended with multiple compounds you have to have two things.
Blending agents and bonding agents.
You use a blending agent to help everyone get along. Then you use a glue to glue them all together. Aka bonding agent.
This way in normal conditions separations doesn't occur.
Ultraviolet light breaks down the glue causing separation to occur.
When you have failing bonding agents you begin to have stability issues.
When gas becomes unstable you get what's called free radicals.
Free radicals are like groupies. They attach to the hottest things in there surroundings.
So when ever you have groupies jumping around you get chaos.
Well that's what happens to gas. You get volitle free radicals (groupies with bad temper) jumping into all the wrong places and cause that area to over heat and when that happens the room blows up.
When gas looses its ability to hold stable flame front it causes spontaneous combustion. Aka detonation.
Keep in mind you can't hear this type of detonation as its not audible. But it's like a mini jack hammer pounding on your rods and Pistons.
It's only a matter of time before the jack hammer breaks something.
 
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