Freestyle Freestyle $$$ sport?

[Matt_E]

Not saying that they should be 500 just stating that a mass produced oem crank is around 250% less then the stroker option and i think the price shoul land somewhere in the middle but thats just my opinion.

An OEM Yamaha 701 crank lists for $1,178.49 on Riva's website right now. FYI.

Stroker retails for $1,445.00 on Crankworks' website.

So it's 22.6% more than OEM. I am not sure what you are talking about?

PS: I'll grant you that OEM cranks used to be a lot cheaper. But then so did strokers. You used to be able to get a cast Lamey topend for $800. Gas cost a few cents a gallon once, too.

EDIT: I think you might have been talking about dirtbike stroker cranks? Again, the difference is in numbers produced.

 

[TheBuzzard]

to compare, if you have champagne taste, but a beer budget, you are going to be drinking beer.

 

[Asmbandits]

I purchased a rebuilt 701 crank from sbt for under $300 +core, so far one half season in and no issues, not sure if its a OME core or not but it has been welded

 

[yldsix]

Wow, I knew this thread would get bad after reading the first post. It has officially skipped past train wreck and straight to nuclear meltdown.

Nah its all good. I enjoy reading matte posts, very informative and entilted to his opinion as am i. Nothing like a good discussion from the other side of the world ..lol

 

[TheBuzzard]

An OEM Yamaha 701 crank lists for $1,178.49 on Riva's website right now. FYI.

wow, i swear i looked up a stock crank cost less that a year ago and it was $800 and change. the cost of everything is going up and i see no end to that.

 

[Matt_E]

^^ yeah I was pretty surprised, too. Last I checked everyone was bitching when it went to $762ish a couple years ago.

 

[ProSouth]

I looked a few weeks ago for a 701 crank. With my discount and no tax is $1100 and some change. That's 10% over "cost"

 

[wsuwrhr]

S&S cases(harley) are much simpler to make than the jetski cases. Smaller material and half the amount of operations. The material is small enough that the material is probably available as an extrusion and not plate. So the material cost is half again, so 25% total of what the material cost is of a set of SJ cases.

What does a set of S&S cases go for? $1500?

Brian

Supply and demand is the issue but not that there is too little supply, however that there is not enough demand.
Harley parts are CHEAP compared to Freestyle and even race ski parts because they make and sell hundreds at a time. Look at it like this.
A set of cast cases cost about $50 to make but the mold to make them cost $40K, so if you sell 50 sets of cases (A STRETCH IN THIS INDUSTRY) a set of cast cases cost you $850 ea so your resale has to be like $1200 for cast cases and you have to weight a long time for your return.
Something cast for a Harley motor or custome chopper that is as universal as a set of cases they will cost the same per set and set up but they will sell 200 of them a year bringing the cost of the cases to $250 making them sell at $400 vrs $1200 and the mfr / dealer gets his return in 25% of the time frame.
This is why you can buy an S&S 4 stroke twin billet or cast case motor for less then a freakn 2 stroke 1200cc motor.
or a 400 small block chevy for half the price. MAKE MORE MAKE CHEAPER period.

 

[wsuwrhr]

No chance it is "that easy."

Ive done it. I would rather not touch one again. There is way more to making a crank "work" than you think.

Brian

well if they they made them cheaper then they would sell alot more, i could see more people going the stroker option if their crank failed and they were same price as oem. Not much r&d to go into a stroker crank, just a copy of oem with more offset, they already have the gear cause their producing cranks already, doesnt make sense to me.

 

[TheBuzzard]

i bought a set of ultima cases in 2006 and they were $599. i'm sure S&S are higher just because of the name. similar to this jetski junk.

 

[rubbertoe]

I came up with this about 9 years ago. This was when the only option was a Wammer Hull or XFT hull.

Pro Level Freestyle SKI with AM Hull

Hull $7,000.00
Hood $800.00
Pole $500.00
Bracket $125.00
Steering $150.00
Intake Grate $100.00
Ride Plate $180.00
Pump $1,500.00
Impellor $250.00
Trim System $850.00
Drive Shaft $500.00
Intermediate Shaft $350.00
Couplers $150.00
Coupler Cover $35.00
Bed Plates $100.00
Cases $400.00
Lamey Cylinders $1,500.00
Crank $1,500.00
Pistons $250.00
Head $400.00
Pipe $700.00
Carbs/Intake $2,500.00
Flame arrestors $110.00
MSD TL $1,200.00
Gas Tank $75.00
Battery $75.00
Battery Tray $35.00
Electrical Components $100.00
Steering Cable $100.00
Start Stop Switch $100.00
UMI Steering $150.00
Bars $35.00
Chin Pad $150.00
Hydroturf $60.00
Throttle Cable $75.00
Grips $30.00
Footholds $140.00
Scupper (2) $150.00
Misc Hardware $400.00
Motormounts $160.00
Finger Throttle $65.00

Machine Work:
Porting $400.00
Case Modification $400.00
Pipe/manifold Modification $200.00
Motor Assembly $300.00


Assembly:
Motor $200.00
Install Total Loss & Setup $250.00
Misc (Cable, hoses, etc) $150.00
hydroturf $300.00
handlepole & Steering $100.00
pump (inc shimming& Trim syst) $150.00
Paint $2,500.00
Tuning $300.00


Total $28,300.00

This may help to put it in perspective of why it cost so much. many of these builds are from the ground up. Not from donor skis.

To me this list sounds totally accurate ,but for the same money today you could build a state-of-the-art ski with a/m hull and engine with all the technology advances for the same price or real close for what it cost more than ten years later .so i think the industry is conscience of keeping the market as affordable as it can considering the product quality and the size of the small market demand.

 

[smdubs]

250% markup!
Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk 2

 

[steve-uk]

To me this list sounds totally accurate ,but for the same money today you could build a state-of-the-art ski with a/m hull and engine with all the technology advances for the same price or real close for what it cost more than ten years later .so i think the industry is conscience of keeping the market as affordable as it can considering the product quality and the size of the small market demand.

with inflation, rising labour, transportation, raw material cost, increase insurance costs etc this means that the sport is getting lower cost

difference everyone always wants more for their $$ and dont realise that they are gettng that already

our sport is a niche, low volume sport as the wise wsuwrhr has already mentioned as has matt e most of the parts we run are essentailly low batch, "hand made" custom parts

 

[Balduccimoto]

Like everyone said, the cost of everything is priced occording to amount produced and amount they're able to produce in a given time. There is no assembly lines here. There's always new comers to everything that wonder why everything is so expensive and wonder how the hell do these people afford the high end stuff? Trust me, im sure most of us have thought the same when we started.

When I started motorcycling I had a crappy 1988 Harley Davidson. At that time I never thought I would be able to purchase a 2011 Ducati with cash. Well that was less than 2 years ago. Here's the story; I sold the Harley, bought a 02 Warrior, sold that, bought a 2006 R6, sold that and bought my 2011 Ducati. I never lost much $$ each time I sold a bike and I just slowly found myself in a comfortable position to buy a like new 848 Evo with green. I am absolutely positive most people here did the same with jet skis, and just slowly upgraded until they found themselves on a high end jet ski.

Forget about everyone else that is building amazing skis on the X. Just go out and ride and save your money. Things will eventually come down in price, especially for hulls in the used market.

 

[yldsix]

Ok i guess my error was that ive compared jetski's to other sports, which you all have nicely pointed out that we are much more niche and that the companies are not selling the quantities that i thought they might have been. I love this sport and will continue to support it regardless of price but thats what a forum is for right? Voice your opinion and get shot down..lol no get more informed responses, so thank you..

 

[Nuklear6]

As said above profit margins must take into consideration all costs to the manufacturer to get said product to consumers door.

Only thing I know associated with jet skiing that makes 250 percent profit is the miller light draft I buy at the bar down the street from our ride spot after every Friday night ride. I know they have to buy, store, cool, and serve it, but considering I walk to and from the bar, they trend to get good sales numbers from me! Lol

 

[baxt3r]

If you want a custom ski or custom part, you're going to pay a custom price. The production numbers are low enough that we might as well be getting one off stuff.

Can somebody remind me why I should put foam in my fuel tank?

 

[Tommygunz]

As stated by curbyourho above, progress as you can afford to and ride as hard as you can on what you have. I started 4or 5 years ago on a squarenose 650 then to a stock sxr then a mod roundnose where I learned some freestyle stuff like barrel rolls and other basics and then finally to a Bob Gen 2. Now I have all the goodies for my new Hurricane build from a total loss to a PHP 898,dual 48's,Powerfactor pipe, 155 pump, RRP pole etc....

But it took me a few years to get all these things and made me a better rider by learning fundamentals and trying harder because of lack of power,heavier hulls and so on....

Imho its like any sport, takin it to the extreme level will be expensive, but anyone who does it can tell you its well worth it!!!!

 

[Schmidty721]

This is why you can buy an S&S 4 stroke twin billet or cast case motor for less then a freakn 2 stroke 1200cc motor.
or a 400 small block chevy for half the price. MAKE MORE MAKE CHEAPER period.

The only billet cases S&S offers to the general public is the Pro Stock 160 CI drag race motor... That engine sells anywhere from $50-65K depending on trim package.

Complimentary billet porn to brighten your guy's morning


All performance engines designed for a Harley chassis or custom bike for street are cast cases. Short blocks range from $4k-6500. A compete fuel injected 124" twin cam in polished finished will set you back $11500.

S&S cases(harley) are much simpler to make than the jetski cases. Smaller material and half the amount of operations. The material is small enough that the material is probably available as an extrusion and not plate. So the material cost is half again, so 25% total of what the material cost is of a set of SJ cases.
What does a set of S&S cases go for? $1500?


Brian

$1500 is in the ball back. Some cheaper, some more expensive. They come with all hardware, bearings & fittings. There may be more machine work required than you think to produce a V-twin case, especially when you get into the big bore long stroke engines.

i bought a set of ultima cases in 2006 and they were $599. i'm sure S&S are higher just because of the name. similar to this jetski junk.

S&S has proven for 55 years that they offer the highest quality V-Twin parts available. I can assure you that it's not higher just because of the name.


It doesn't matter what sport or hobby you enjoy. If you want power and quality you will pay for it.

 

[sjetrider]

If it were that cheap and easy to produce billet stroker cranks then DASA and everyone else being held up by Crankworks to ship motors would be making their own and for that matter so would you.
Cranks take skill, machinery and labor to produce. Not to mention the materials. These are BILLET cranks, not casted OEM lobes / webs. Castings are cheaper, faster, easier and require less machine time and way less skilled labor. This aint China bro.
The design is there and done yes, but the sumbitch aint gonna build itself. Call Crankworks for a lead time then realize it aint a quick build.