- Location
- Red Bluff CA
"Has anyone made their own oil blend"We should turn this into an oil thread
Has anyone tried 3d printing a hull?
- Thread starter HarryConnolly
- Start date
Quinc
Buy a Superjet
- Location
- California
Every time I come up short and have to open a new bottle of a different brand.
Yes, I have tested a few different types of bases over the years. Lubrication is the easy part, keeping everything clean requires either a very heavy mix ratio or a good additive package. At the end of the day I run my engines well in the safe zone and use whatever TCW3 I can get the cheapest. Sitdowns may need a higher temp detergent but for standups TCW3 is fine.
- Location
- Red Bluff CA
Project farm ran a 2 stroke on 1030 for like 3 hours. With no added wear vs other oils.
He also determined that while all oils offer decent protection. A standard set by the feds. That certain oil GREATLY exceeded that standard in both corrosion and wear resistance. Especially at the extreme end of performance.
We can prob get this thread to eventually do a full 360 back to pipe dreams hull building.
Quinc
Buy a Superjet
- Location
- California
My dad ran 40wt in his big boy chainsaws for years when he was logging.
Yes, as long as you use enough of it everything stays clean, at 50:1 it becomes a big mess. For the fledgling ski designers, measure a Superjet hull from the rear edge to the center of gravity with the rider on it. Add 25% and that is the planing area. You can shorten the rear in order to make it easier to pitch up, or down if you like to sub. The only problem is it becomes harder to plane so handle poles need to be shortened. You can build as much grip into the bottom as you want. Tubbies suck down the inside edge whenever they are in the water so its easier to turn. Narrow skis (440-550s) are 20.5" wide, Superjets are over 21" . I have measured some aftermarket hulls at 22". My Wavejammer is 27" wide and feels more like its 4 feet wide.
WFO Speedracer
A lifetime ban is like a lifetime warranty !
- Location
- Alabama
- Location
- West Roxbury, Boston
I dumped a poopload of my old man’s 40wt machine oil into storm drains until the city added bronze plates that say no dice something about the fish
Must have been a logger thing
- Location
- Red Bluff CA
Wtf man
- Location
- West Roxbury, Boston
I was a good 8 year old following orders, except I couldn’t stop blowing up four strokes.
I thought everyone dumped oil in storm drains until I was on my own. Tough break.
WFO Speedracer
A lifetime ban is like a lifetime warranty !
- Location
- Alabama
Attachments
Vumad
Super Hero, with a cape!
- Location
- St. Pete, FL
I'm a hack and I'm going to answer you as a hack. I'm not sure about your budget situation since you have no problem throwing away hulls. It would be easy to drop $1-2k in materials to build 1 hull so the idea of that being disposable is a bit outside of the realm of the methods I am willing to invest in but it will be from the perspective of top notch hack work.
There are a lot of factors to 3D printing. The most common method is FDM printing. The first thing to note about 3D printing is that it isn't really 3D. Its better described as 2.5D printing. It is 2D layers stacked to make a 3D object. Why is this an important distinction? Because 3D printing is pretty strong on the 2D X/y Axis, but it is pretty weak in the Z axis. Parts are very likely to delaminate under any amount of force and fail. I couldn't imagine printing a real working hull with FDM printing.
There are ways to manage delamination failures. I commonly use assemblies to keep my hobby parts together. For example, if making an airbox, they usually fail from delamination. The print can usually handle compressive loads but not tensile loads. However, look at a Superjet motor with a Girlded head. It changes the cylinder from tensile to compressive loads. This same thing applied to an airbox saves the 3D print. 3D print a patten for a top and bottom girdle (cut from lexan or aluminum), then compress your desired flow path between these pieces, which creates strength in an assembly, if that makes sense.
This method works because the part has a flat top and bottom. A hull is much more complexed in design, so this method is harder to use. You could 3D print a shell, then fiberglass reinforce it. Bote Gatorshell paddleboards are just ABS coated fiberglass. However, the layup process is highly likely to result in significant heat warp and damage to the 3D print. I have never tried this, so I can't say that it wont work. I would imagine that the process could work, but would likely require a prohibitively thick print.
There are some additional considerations for 3D printing. The Creality CR10S5 has a 500^3 build volume and isn't inexpensive for a hobbyist despite being the cheapest large format printer available. A single part in this volume can take 3-4 Kg ($100) worth of filament and take a week to print. That's 20in^3. A hull could easily take a minimum of 8 prints, adding up to nearly $1000 and 2 continuous months of printing. The printer has filament run out detection, but I will point out the letting the filament run out has always resulted in a failed (misaligned or delaminated) print when it attempt to continue. This might be worth dealing with for a production quality plug where I am looking for perfection, but I can build a test plug (where perfection is not required) every bit this fast for much less cost using drywall and foam. I believe that a CNC Router cutting foam would be a better investment, and don't forget, you can cut the foam short, coat it something hard and run it again, for a harder finish than foam. This is how some of the the big boys build boats.
Now, that's not to say that 3D printing is not a viable option for hull building, and I have dabbled in some of these methods.
The BabyJet was hand built and any tools I used were hand made. This was quite the cumbersome process. It's all documented here...
Baby Jet
We are about to embark on an amazing adventure to waste an absurd amount of time and money to introduce a little lady into a sport she can't even yet comprehend... Initial measurements and sketches were taken from her walker onto PEG board. The wheels for this were salvaged from a jogging stroller.
www.x-h2o.com
Wooden tooling sucks....
Since then, i have began using my 3D printer for these jobs which much faster are more precise results....
This radius used to take days for me to shape by hand, but with the 3-printed tool, I completed this plug shape in an hour.
3D printing can be taken a step further and be used for plugs and molds. I have done neither, because my surface modeling skills are insufficient. However, I have practiced with the methods, just not with fiberglass composites.
I did however 3D print a mold for paper machete to teach my daughter about how her BabyJet was built.
So I do know these are viable methods for building boats. 3D printing the mold saves the work and materials of building a plug and building a composite mold. What I do not know however is the impact of heat on the mold, as I haven't use this method on a larger scale or with exothermic materials.
I have not yet reached the CAD skills to move to the next step, but I do want to share something about resources. I started this post by saying I am a hack because I am resource limited. However, the greatest resource to a hack is ingenuity and what we think we need vs what what we can achieve for less can be shocking...
This here is a 3D scan of my Kawasaki X2. The price? $25, using a gifted Xbox kinect sensor, a $25 USB adapter and free software.
Imported into Fusion 360
This is my end point for Surface modeling. I probably have the skills after the modeling is done, but I can't move forward until I can learn to model better. Fusion 360 is free for hobby use. It is incredibly powerful. I use it for all my modeling for 3D printing, but it also includes G-code outputs for 3-axis CNC machining if you go the router route.
The hardest part of all this is figuring out the steps from start to finish (evolution of skills and equipment) and I got stuck on surface modeling. However, since then, I have realized that the solution is a hybrid plug process, where I print complexed parts of the plug, such as the hood seal and hinge assembly, while leaving the rest of the boat for more traditional methods, such as pump tunnel splashes and printed tools for chines / bondline shaping, until i am ready to move to the final step of fully 3-d printed (probably CNC routered, actually) plugs.
I hope this post answers most of your questions. Best of luck.
Last edited:
E350
Site Supporter
- Location
- Sacramento Delta
Ok @Vumad mad skills!
All sports that I am familiar with (snow skiing, wind surfing and even jet skiing) went from long and narrow for straight line racing speed through chop to short and wide for freestyle carve, tight turns and flat spin.
I like the width and the concave bow of the bottom hull of the X2 for my ~200 lbs. and ~5' 11".
I still have a desire to build a pole ski with that bottom hull.
I still fantasize about cleaning up the hull of my wife's '88 X2, truing it, and making a female mold off of it . . .
Musical interlude:
All sports that I am familiar with (snow skiing, wind surfing and even jet skiing) went from long and narrow for straight line racing speed through chop to short and wide for freestyle carve, tight turns and flat spin.
I like the width and the concave bow of the bottom hull of the X2 for my ~200 lbs. and ~5' 11".
I still have a desire to build a pole ski with that bottom hull.
I still fantasize about cleaning up the hull of my wife's '88 X2, truing it, and making a female mold off of it . . .
Musical interlude:
Last edited:
- Location
- West Roxbury, Boston
Thank you for your postI'm a hack and I'm going to answer you as a hack. I'm not sure about your budget situation since you have no problem throwing away hulls. It would be easy to drop $1-2k in materials to build 1 hull so the idea of that being disposable is a bit outside of the realm of the methods I am willing to invest in but it will be from the perspective of top notch hack work.
There are a lot of factors to 3D printing. The most common method is FDM printing. The first thing to note about 3D printing is that it isn't really 3D. Its better described as 2.5D printing. It is 2D layers stacked to make a 3D object. Why is this an important distinction? Because 3D printing is pretty strong on the 2D X/y Axis, but it is pretty weak in the Z axis. Parts are very likely to delaminate under any amount of force and fail. I couldn't imagine printing a real working hull with FDM printing.
There are ways to manage delamination failures. I commonly use assemblies to keep my hobby parts together. For example, if making an airbox, they usually fail from delamination. The print can usually handle compressive loads but not tensile loads. However, look at a Superjet motor with a Girlded head. It changes the cylinder from tensile to compressive loads. This same thing applied to an airbox saves the 3D print. 3D print a patten for a top and bottom girdle (cut from lexan or aluminum), then compress your desired flow path between these pieces, which creates strength in an assembly, if that makes sense.
This method works because the part has a flat top and bottom. A hull is much more complexed in design, so this method is harder to use. You could 3D print a shell, then fiberglass reinforce it. Bote Gatorshell paddleboards are just ABS coated fiberglass. However, the layup process is highly likely to result in significant heat warp and damage to the 3D print. I have never tried this, so I can't say that it wont work. I would imagine that the process could work, but would likely require a prohibitively thick print.
There are some additional considerations for 3D printing. The Creality CR10S5 has a 500^3 build volume and isn't inexpensive for a hobbyist despite being the cheapest large format printer available. A single part in this volume can take 3-4 Kg ($100) worth of filament and take a week to print. That's 20in^3. A hull could easily take a minimum of 8 prints, adding up to nearly $1000 and 2 continuous months of printing. The printer has filament run out detection, but I will point out the letting the filament run out has always resulted in a failed (misaligned or delaminated) print when it attempt to continue. This might be worth dealing with for a production quality plug where I am looking for perfection, but I can build a test plug (where perfection is not required) every bit this fast for much less cost using drywall and foam. I believe that a CNC Router cutting foam would be a better investment, and don't forget, you can cut the foam short, coat it something hard and run it again, for a harder finish than foam. This is how some of the the big boys build boats.
Now, that's not to say that 3D printing is not a viable option for hull building, and I have dabbled in some of these methods.
The BabyJet was hand built and any tools I used were hand made. This was quite the cumbersome process. It's all documented here...
Baby Jet
We are about to embark on an amazing adventure to waste an absurd amount of time and money to introduce a little lady into a sport she can't even yet comprehend... Initial measurements and sketches were taken from her walker onto PEG board. The wheels for this were salvaged from a jogging stroller.www.x-h2o.com
Wooden tooling sucks....
View attachment 440422
Since then, i have began using my 3D printer for these jobs which much faster are more precise results....
View attachment 440423
View attachment 440425
View attachment 440424
This radius used to take days for me to shape by hand, but with the 3-printed tool, I completed this plug shape in an hour.
3D printing can be taken a step further and be used for plugs and molds. I have done neither, because my surface modeling skills are insufficient. However, I have practiced with the methods, just not with fiberglass composites.
I did however 3D print a mold for paper machete to teach my daughter about how her BabyJet was built.
View attachment 440426
View attachment 440427
View attachment 440428
So I do know these are viable methods for building boats. 3D printing the mold saves the work and materials of building a plug and building a composite mold. What I do not know however is the impact of heat on the mold, as I haven't use this method on a larger scale or with exothermic materials.
I have not yet reached the CAD skills to move to the next step, but I do want to share something about resources. I started this post by saying I am a hack because I am resource limited. However, the greatest resource to a hack is ingenuity and what we think we need vs what what we can achieve for less can be shocking...
This here is a 3D scan of my Kawasaki X2. The price? $25, using a gifted Xbox kinect sensor, a $25 USB adapter and free software.
View attachment 440429
Imported into Fusion 360
View attachment 440430
This is my end point for Surface modeling. I probably have the skills after the modeling is done, but I can't move forward until I can learn to model better. Fusion 360 is free for hobby use. It is incredibly powerful. I use it for all my modeling for 3D printing, but it also includes G-code outputs for 3-axis CNC machining if you go the router route.
View attachment 440431
The hardest part of all this is figuring out the steps from start to finish (evolution of skills and equipment) and I got stuck on surface modeling. However, since then, I have realized that the solution is a hybrid plug process, where I print complexed parts of the plug, such as the hood seal and hinge assembly, while leaving the rest of the boat for more traditional methods, such as pump tunnel splashes and printed tools for chines / bondline shaping, until i am ready to move to the final step of fully 3-d printed (probably CNC routered, actually) plugs.
I hope this post answers most of your questions. Best of luck.
Specifically the 3d scan deal. I’ve been measuring skis I go to look at for purchase. I’ve been turned onto 3d scanning from a friend who builds houses and has a 3d scanning system. His scanner is made for counter tops and we tried but it did not work.
I’ve currently been researching cheap alternatives to scanning. Maybe the most important thing I’ve learned is I can’t seem to map the front of the hull with just measurements alone.
I actually just talked to a photographer who could scan in 3d at scale but he wanted $1200.
You’ve inspired me to scan on my own
Last edited:
OCD Solutions
Original, Clean and Dependable Solutions
- Location
- Rentz, GA
RSKI posted awhile back about using an iPad Pro for 3D scanning using the built-in LIDAR sensors.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
E350
Site Supporter
- Location
- Sacramento Delta
This seems like a realist price:
2008 SX-R 800 $4,900
2008 SX-R 800 Fresh carb rebuild Rear sponsons and r&d ride plate Scoop intake grate Finger throttle Advanced timing New starter bindex New choke cable Front carbon nose trim with bow eye Fresh paint job Selling because I got into dirt-bikes and don’t have time for the ski anymore...
www.x-h2o.com
Vumad
Super Hero, with a cape!
- Location
- St. Pete, FL
The Kinect is not really supported by Xbox in new games despite Microsoft pushing them very hard for a while. That means there are still plenty around with no real use. I got mine for free.
You only need a USB adapter which is about $25.
I used the Microsoft scan app for free. https://apps.microsoft.com/store/de...ilentAuth=1&f=255&MSPPError=-2147217396&rtc=1
I have a MacBook, boot camped a unactivated version of windows, so I didn't even pay for Windows.
- Location
- near beautiful bobcaygeon
what do you mean by this?
- Location
- Red Bluff CA
Hey man. I'm not gonna say fact when I don't know firs hand. But word is. This dude put a bigger engine in his son's hull than was allowed by competition. Lied about it. And tried yo hide it. Got caufht. And swept it under the rug. That's what many people have said anyways.
I dealt with him getting a hull. Sadly. From friends recommendation. And it was a total salesman pitch the whole way. Never would deal with him. Or anyone in Arizona with jet skis. Ever again. There is a reason all those guys moved there despite the God awful heat and dismal scenery.
We can start a new shady ass vendors thread if necessary. Like the vendor that bought a bunch of last yr superjets and marked them up 50 percent stircly for profit. You all stl buy their poop