Jetinetics Charging Flywheel and timing

[Freestyleriverrat]

I was reading about the Jetinetics Charging Flywheel and it was saying that b/c the ""powerful" magnetic properties of the flywheel the timing needs to be advanced 5 degrees otherwise the motor will seem sluggish. I cannot access the site here at work otherwise I would include the link, but if that is true what do you do if you are running a MSD enhancer that already adjusts the timing curve. Does that 5 degree advance just offset the condition created by the flywheel or will it totally screw with the MSD set up?

 

[2nd nature]

msd tl.

 

[Freestyleriverrat]

msd tl.

sorry, msd enhancer w/ charging flywheel

 

[SUPERTUNE]

Rat, Don't trust anything on just advice when it comes to timing!
Use a degree chart and dial indicator and use a pointer on the engine side coupler (stock). Set indicator on desired timing, mark coupler, then check with a timing light! if timing is off, you can measure the distance its off at the coupler and move it the same amount at the stator and that will put you right on the mark! I have found that Jetinetics C/flywheeels were all over the board when I checked them, the worst was with a Vilder cdi almost had to turn the stator all the way advanced to get it to the stock 21 degrees.
I have a timing chart if you need one...I don't have it on the computer but PM me with a fax # and I can send it to you...Also tell me what mm stroke you have as I have charts for strokers too.
Chuck

 

[Freestyleriverrat]

OK, so it does mess with timing! So once I set it to the stock setting the MSD should work normally correct?

 

[waxhead]

depends
the rad flywheels change the timimng all over the place depending on what rpm you are pulling
it actually makes the enhancer a bad thing as you can not compenstate for the error
the only thing that can compenstate is a full digital ignition you can program

 

[michael950]

depends
the rad flywheels change the timimng all over the place depending on what rpm you are pulling
it actually makes the enhancer a bad thing as you can not compenstate for the error
the only thing that can compenstate is a full digital ignition you can program

I guess that is why Advent says use the stock flywheel only.

 

[Freestyleriverrat]

I guess that is why Advent says use the stock flywheel only.

Really?......hmmmmmmm. I sent Jetinetics a email on the matter and will wait to hear what they say. It seems to me that if ou have to take out the enhancer it is not really worth the time or money. 2 setps back and one forward type of a deal.

 

[waxhead]

thats because every flywheel is different and you need to program the ignition for that flywheel
Its a lot of work but in the ling run its good
but not every one can do that or be bothered to do that

 

[Freestyleriverrat]

thats because every flywheel is different and you need to program the ignition for that flywheel
Its a lot of work but in the ling run its good
but not every one can do that or be bothered to do that

I can do it no problem, but I am jsut concerned about a "non-progarmmagble" set up like the enhancer

 

[crammit442]

Chuckie is right. After you put it on, check your timing carefully with the light at a number of different r's and see where you are. It'll be pretty obvious what you need to do after that. Not a bad idea with JSS reworked stators either.

Charles

 

[waxhead]

I can do it no problem, but I am jsut concerned about a "non-progarmmagble" set up like the enhancer

well you can but you cant as you need an ignition to do it

it takes a while to do as you need to go throught the rpm steps to get it right
i have done it down to 250 rpm steps before
i use a fast moving tacho and a timing light and video the revs as it comes up
i then use a step by step so i have a something i can watch over and over
i run it on my pc and sit there making the curve

Two computer screens helps this heaps

 

[Crab]

Rat, Don't trust anything on just advice when it comes to timing!
Use a degree chart and dial indicator and use a pointer on the engine side coupler (stock). Set indicator on desired timing, mark coupler, then check with a timing light! if timing is off, you can measure the distance its off at the coupler and move it the same amount at the stator and that will put you right on the mark! I have found that Jetinetics C/flywheeels were all over the board when I checked them, the worst was with a Vilder cdi almost had to turn the stator all the way advanced to get it to the stock 21 degrees.
I have a timing chart if you need one...I don't have it on the computer but PM me with a fax # and I can send it to you...Also tell me what mm stroke you have as I have charts for strokers too.
Chuck

So I assume you would also apply that to the Kaw650 with Jetnetics flywheel, don't trust them to be right. Any recomendations for 750 kaw running 650 electrics?

 

[Freestyleriverrat]

I talked to the guys ta Jetinetics today and they said the flywheel will work fine with the enhancer, just set the timing to to the stock setting and the enhancer will work as intended. The the strngth of the magnets can cause the static timing to be off, if that is off it will throw everything else off. Once that is locked in it will retain that timing setting and the CDI can do it thing.

 

[WaveDemon]

with a wax programable ignition is there a good way to safely make a custom ignition curve without a dyno and without ruining pistons? I know you can watch for peak rpm but that's not the whole range. do you pull plugs often to look for deto and back off? is there a widly accepted best curve? is there a known advace that you can't go past at a certain rpm?

 

[Matt_E]

I am not sure what a dyno has to do with an ignition curve.
There are certain guidelines for a "safe" ingition curve, and that's you program it.
I.E., to stay in pump gas range, don't exceed 20 degrees at 6500 RPM (just an example)
There are a few good threads both here and on PWCT that give some insight into those timing curves (for the 701 engine).
I.E., what static retard to use, where to begin retarding the timing, how fast it drops off, where it's at at the RPM limit, etc.
The best way to be sure of the accuracy of the curve is to check the timing with a timing light, a tach, and vary the RPMs in the water (trailer).

 

[WaveDemon]

a dyno will tell you if you made a good or bad change at rpm. I would think it would show you are losing power if you are to far advanced.

 

[Matt_E]

An EGT would be far more useful for that. (Exhaust Gas Temps). That's usually how ignitions are tuned, I believe.
For ski engines, the process is usually plotting out a good timing curve that matches your motor (i.e., loads of advance down low and safe advance on top for pump gas motors), and then checking it with a light.

 

[Freestyleriverrat]

What I plan on doing is installing the aftermarket flywheel and stock cdi. Use a timing light and set the timing to the factory setting. If it all checks out at various rpms, reinstall the enhancer. Its almost to easy :woot:

 

[waxhead]

since the flywheels move the timming compared to rpm and not just a set amount
http://www.factorypipe.com/fire/raddefault.html

Factory pipe tried to make a default curve to allow for it
but in my experince it has shown that each rad flywheel changes it its own amount


what i do is set the ignition to a flat 15 degree
and then with a timimng light plot its variation through the rev range
you can then make a curve to cancel its varation out and set it how you want

you do not need a dyno to set the curve
the yamaha will tend to wind out spark plugs and blow o-rings if you go to high in advance before it lets go
as long as you are snealking the curve up and not thowing in large changes of advance