New design TNT pipe

[tntsuperjet]

Just to clear the water.
I will not send a pipe to anyone to test that is just a rider slash self mechanic.
There are to many things that need to be tuned tested and known to just bolt on a proto and exp results.
Even couple good tuners had trouble with original setup.
I can't send a pipe to anyone I don't have first hand exp with and trust there feed back. Way to many variables.
If you want to be considered for test subject here is criteria.
1- be able to bring you and your ski to my shop.
2- be able to install the pipe yourself.
3- be able to go to lake with me day after day to test different setups.
4- be a accomplished engine builder, examples, dasa, judge, chapin or in there caliber of tuning.
5- be willing to test and tune to the extreme of possible engine failure.

But if you are not of one the above listed, your option is to buy pipe and do your own testing.
There has been one of those guys post on here about the pipe he purchased and did his own setup and had good results.

But I can't just have random people test pipes.
One they cost me about 800.00 in labor to build and there money losers until production stream lining takes place.
When I say cost me 800.00 that means I can generate 800+ in shop labor doing other jobs in same time frame as build a pipe.
Your looking at 14-20hrs labor for one proto type pipe.
So if you want to spend 1,000 for a mild steel test pipe I be happy to build send you one.
Other wise sit back relax and read about those in my network who are working with me to develop the new pipes.

 

[icecoled007]

Looks cool - excited for an 1100 pipe

Can I be a tester just kidding..... keep up the good work.

Subscribed

 

[masterblaster]

why not run a front facing lay down style pipe for the freeride setup,they fit in all the a/m hulls? The gas tank and water box options are plentiful for those setups now...

 

[tntsuperjet]

Because you would need two manifolds to do that.
Going to be hard investment for tooling for one manifold two is not an options

 

[vshockey10]

My suggestion would be the same then. Make the manifold front facing then make a laydown chamber and a type 8 like wrap up chamber


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[scottie mac]

If the r&d dry pipe fits in a blaster then yes my

new pipe will fit

R&d dry pipe will not fit in blaster unless you cut the footwell and bubble.

Scottie

 

[tntsuperjet]

Mak

damn what a tease !
need way more info .... race pipe i assume
i have rd manifild rolling around in the back of my truck ! hmm
really interested in the kaw tripple pipe !
lmk if you need a tester ![/QUO

Make you a deal on triple pipe for deal on your R&d manifold

 

[vomitspot]

Other wise sit back relax and read about those in my network who are working with me to develop the new pipes

thank you but i need to fall into this section here !
i cannot
1- be able to bring you and your ski to my shop.
2- be able to install the pipe yourself.
3- be able to go to lake with me day after day to test different setups.
4- be a accomplished engine builder, examples, dasa, judge, chapin or in there caliber of tuning.
5- be willing to test and tune to the extreme of possible engine failure.
i will be wiling to do anything to help you out ! as you helped me out in havasu 97 .. sold me some motormounts out of a sn hull , told me it was used by jacobs ...?
jason

 

[tntsuperjet]

I was Jammers mechanic in 94 for the world finals.
Then he got deal in 95 with RIVA I think it was.
The twin pipe I pretty much done and final designs have been fine tuned and those who have them have not made any suggestions as to change it.
It's faster then anything else they have tested.

 

[tstewart]

Vshockey10-- and few others... With the suggestions and "wants", what would be cool and very helpful would be to .. invest $$$ into tnt , just a little.. 25k.. enough to help offset his own burden... With only 4 people,it could make a lot happen quicker! And then maybe some "your own choices of how to.."
Well...I'm kinda joking....but not completely.
And on another point, do any of ya understand how important the design/use of a exaust manifold can be with with any pipe? Please don't tell the builder... How to make , what has already shown very good results..

 

[scottie mac]

Spoke with Tim yesterday, he has some really interesting outside the box ideas about how to push performance. Guy definitely knows what he is talking about. Me personally, I am glad someone out there is still willing to do the work and testing to help 2 strokes.

SM

 

[tntsuperjet]

Thanks for that SC.
Most the guys into watercraft now don't know we where the second company into Yamaha, Protec was first.
Tim T was also first rider outside Protec tent to race Yamaha SJ, TNT also powered very first Yamaha runabout victory on VXR in San Diego on APBA hot water tour.
The TNT center bleed was first duel taper pipe and first center bleed.
The new TNT Pipe is first triple convergence pipe for watercraft.
The first two yrs we raced Yamaha we where pleagued with reliability issues, cylinders, drive shaft couplers, reed valves breaking.
At that time everyone thought we where crazy investing in the Yamaha, but in 1993 we got it right and we proved not only was Yamaha good, but it was the dominant boat.
The original TNT pipe was built in 1993 for the world finals, it was a concept started by Ross at Factory pipe. I was sponsored by factory pipe and he always wanted to build a pipe for a modified race boat, factory pipe funded the whole bill to conceive that pipe and it showed its face in October of 93 during the tech inspection with hundreds lurking was revealed and instantly became tourist attraction and clogged the tech insp line.
In the winter months to follow I redesigned the pipe as it was to violent and needed more revs less hit as boat proved unrideable at the finals.
Then we entered into pipe shoot out in splash magazine and protec protested our presence said it wasn't fair TNT has special unavailable cone pipe and it shouldn't be allowed in the test. After full day of deliberation the editor deemed tnt pipe was available for sale in same form tested and it's existence backed up by Factory pipe who was also lead player in the pipe test.
I can honestly say there would be no tnt pipes if not for factory pipe. Ross and I are still great friends and I hate the fact the new pipe isn't using FPP but his manifold wasn't as good as R&D for power but I believe FP manifold is more durable.
I tried to convince factory pipe to build new manifold to my design but there not convinced the market is deep enough to invest in.
I know you guys all believe it is. But trust me, if I had a 30,000 square foot shop to pay for I be bankrupt in a month if all I did was watercraft.
The watercraft market is small and large number are not willing to invest in products. They want to talk big and build promise but never show there money.
My supermini and Mx schools keep me going and I am doing the watercraft stuff just because Johnny Blowsion convinced me it would be worth my time and fact my old pipe still one of pipes of choice for racing.
So as of now, the new tnt pipe has cost me $18,000 in materials, expenses and development hours and it's grossed $900 the manifold will be another 70k investment.
So all said and done we are looking at close to 100,000 invested into this project.
With projected sales being about 30 pipes a yr we looking about 8yrs sales to break even.
This should help you guys realize why so few invest in watercraft.
Example, my snow mobile guys say I want the baddest most crazy sled you can build. Price tag for that is about 65,000.00 bucks!!!
They don't ask how much, they don't care about anything exp when can I have it and it better be over 350hp!!!!
My mini Mx dads just want fastest bike on track and the bill is what it is.

As for the watercraft guys this rarely happens.

So I am bringing some of my snowmobile and bike technology back into my grass roots of watercraft as I still have soft spot for the sport I struggled in as a racer for so many yrs.

 

[Mark44]

Not a business I would invest in with those numbers. IMO.

 

[OCD Solutions]

Not a business I would invest in with those numbers. IMO.

Which is exactly why we need to encourage him even more.

 

[Quinc]

Not a business I would invest in with those numbers. IMO.

Stand ups seem to be making a comeback. Cant go to the lake without seeing them now and I have seen twice as many as last year at the tiny lake I ride at. Then again even if he sells 10% more it is still only 3 more pipes a year. =/

T Ross and I are still great friends and I hate the fact the new pipe isn't using FPP but his manifold wasn't as good as R&D for power but I believe FP manifold is more durable.
I tried to convince factory pipe to build new manifold to my design but there not convinced the market is deep enough to invest in.

Will R&D not make the manifolds for you or at least sell you the molds/tooling?

 

[tntsuperjet]

R&D will sell me manifolds.
They want 100 units at cost of 600.00 per unit.
Cost 600.00
30% markup dist
780.00
35% dealer
975.00
Makes pipe complete
1700.00 range.
How many will buy them??
I would say less then 5 pipes a yr would sell.

The old tnt pipe sold 359.00 retail chamber only.
699.00 complete system
At that price when water craft was still pretty big we sold little over 300 pipes total in 5yrs production.

After development costs and advertisement we made 3,700.00 dollars profit in 5yrs.
That might turn the light on for you. oh wait can't turn light on we didn't pay the bill. Lmao!!!

 

[yamanube]

Holy crap, $600/manifold...Im all for supporting the industry but christ, get that poop cast in China like everybody else and help yourself out a bit. There is a difference between working smart and working hard.

 

[Quinc]

600!$ are they expecting you to buy the whole pipe?! I am with yamanube tap into the same place nynja is getting there's made.

 

[masterblaster]

I always wondered why someone would take all the that time to develope a high performance pipe for the FP wetpipe mani and risor? now we know,cool story,makes sense now.
600 cost on R&D mani? um thats them makin a nice nut. I hate to say it again but china is right for castings if thats the way you really are gonna go.Im sure nynja isnt your best buddy,but there source for castings is a ton less than 70k and their casting look better than fp. Their welding source leaves some to be desired,but for the price they make the tnt copy for it made mass market far better. It will be hard to compete with the RRP carbon pipe and PFP now as well since both work so well and balance the ski better in lay down config. Both are using the same manifold,that edelbrok is casting for them. 70k kills the whole concept of mass market profitability, It would be far better to just buy the edelbrok manifold for 1/3 of what your talking from R&D, they retail at 399 so cost is less than half that.have some extrude hone work done to them in bulk.

spend more time and money on multi pipes to cater to more size motors....make more end sales... A up and over pipe is a tough sale to begin with now in the freeride/freestyle market where almost every ski out there,certainly the ones willing to spend big on a pipe...have a a/m hull with a setback motor.... you may sell a few in racing spec class,unless the R&D style wont fit in a blaster,then your really SOL,Still no where even close to where freestyle/freeride market is now. At world finals,95% of the products shown and selling are freestyle/freeride related. If it wasnt for that sport skis would be long dead.

 

[tntsuperjet]

Funny everyone says free ride market but all pipes sold have been to racers.
Not one freeride guy has shown up to do testing.
The up and over design fits more options and doesn't require special tanks etc.
Plus it lends to the stock boat lake lizard who just wants a pipe as that's the only mod he can afford.