650/X-2 Please stop sending x2 owners away

Vumad

Super Hero, with a cape!
Location
St. Pete, FL
Almost every thread i read in the x2 sections that started with a question end with thw op being told to go over to pwctoday. I say this In the kindest way possible, please cut that poop out.

The truth is, pwctoday doesnt have anything more to offer than xh2o. The forum is out of date, poorly maintained and poorly moderated. The x2 section there has grown for one primary reason, and it is explained throuh a simple history lesson.

People who used to be members here that have since been banned drove that shift. Im sure some longer term members here can think of a few names too. These people who were banned were not speaking out against a corrupt moderation team. They were people with bad attitudes that attacked people and instead of appoligizing to other members, they got into down right wars whenever possible. they drove members to pwctoday claiming it to be better for x2 owners, but in realiy, it was a place whe they could rant and rave unmoderated. I may talk alot, i may joke or be sarcastic, i may offend people, but at the end of the day, i always try to give the best advice, support the community and applogize when i am wrong. Those who have been banned where not like that, and they are the backbone of the movement of the x2 community away from here. Why go where such bad attitude rein supreme?

A claim may be made that were are freeride oriented, but most x2 owners are freeriders. They may race them, or be recreational riders, but x2 are working towads being the dominating stock hull at freerides. I saw dozens of x2 at daytona this year. These are our people.

The x2 section here has all but died, but there are still people on this forum that are passionate about the x2 and ready to help. We need to stop driving x2 ownrs or potential owners away. This cuts into our community overall, the transition of these riders into our niches, and for those who dont find that enouh motivation, it reduces the number of people visiting your classified adds.

Here are the facts in case you need them.
Xh2o is driven by a more up to date forum engine
it does a better job of showing you unread posts
It takes you tl your last unread in a thread, which is really handy if ypu dont troll
it allows more editing and deletion of posts
it better supports images outside the community
it allows likes and simple multi quoting
the moderator are active, and prevent excessive attacks, most who have been banned from here were mean spirited people
the moderator team actively merger, moves, etc thread to keep the forum as organized as possibl
the moderators are not too arrogant to ask the opinions of long term members if their moderation actions are fair and justified

This is a great forum. I love the x2. Please stop driving x2 owners away.
 
PWCTODAY blows. Seriously. Maybe not the site itself but the community over there is full of a bunch of arrogant pr!cks. My hat is off to the moderators on here who keep things clean. I hate to see a group of riders being steered from this site to that hell hole.
 

Ducky

Back in the game!
Location
Charlotte, NC
I love the X2 as well, but you cant hide the fact that there is more X2 information over there. These skis are almost 30 years old...almost everything has been done and documented over there. A lot of people, myself included, try to research as much as possible about stuff they are wanting to know before they make a post asking a question....and those questions are more frequently answered on PWCtoday.
 
Location
PNW
It would be a shame to alienate anyone who shares the same passion that most of us have for this sport, especially if they are seeking some sort of help. That being said, Matt is right, there is more information to be had over there in regards to vintage boats. Unfortunately, there is no moderation and some turds take advantage of it.

Edit, I can tell you that people like Tim, scottie mac, Chris03HD, Yamabooeey, ChadGnarly and Johnny X2 to name a few, have gone out of their way to help me out with complete ski builds. It's unfortunate that some people take advantage of the lack of moderation.
 
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tshank123

Yo hablo ingles
Location
Vegas
I agree that PWCToday is poorly moderated. However:

  • This site is over-moderated. In fact this thread has a very good chance of being locked just because of the very nature of it and the possibility that might offend somebody.
  • There are a ton of arrogant pricks on this forum. Most of them talk down there noses at anybody who frequents PWCToday.
  • There is a ton of drama on this site despite the fact that most hardcore X'rs think that PWCToday is the only place that drama exists.
  • Yes its nice to be able to edit old posts but it also allows people to deny what they said in the past, which is a big negative.
  • PWCToday has a lot more kawi guys than this site does. This site is almost completely a yamaha site. The fact that you don't X2 guys more here has a lot to do with this.
 
I don't have an X2 so I don't know what really goes on in that section but maybe our community can try and make it a point to start answering questions that are asked instead of sending them over there just so that we may have searchable solutions on this site. For example, if someone asks about a known problem for x2's and you know the info is on PWCtoday then maybe you can go copy and paste that info onto here along with pictures or whatever just like if you were referencing a book or article you read. After a while all of that tribal knowledge will be searchable on here. This method would also be a lot better for those in the riding community who avoid joining forums for the sole reason being that you don't have to have an account on here to view the pictures. I have friends who don't join forums but they still lurk in an effort to solve issues. Going to PWC is a lost cause if you need more visual information. In the short term it may not be the most logical method of helping or it may take more effort but in the long run it may be better for the whole riding community. Just my two cents.

as far as this site being over moderated, I completely disagree. The moderation on here keeps things on topic and keeps conversations civil. That same sex marriage thread lasted about a thousand times longer on this site than it ever would have on ANY forum I belong to.
 

tshank123

Yo hablo ingles
Location
Vegas
as far as this site being over moderated, I completely disagree. The moderation on here keeps things on topic and keeps conversations civil. That same sex marriage thread lasted about a thousand times longer on this site than it ever would have on ANY forum I belong to.

That same sex marriage is a good example. I felt that everyone in that conversation was acting like an adult and kept it completely civil. We had a good conversation and it was abruptly ended because of some mod's fear that somebody might say something that could offend somebody.
 
That same sex marriage is a good example. I felt that everyone in that conversation was acting like an adult and kept it completely civil. We had a good conversation and it was abruptly ended because of some mod's fear that somebody might say something that could offend somebody.
I can see what you mean but I also feel that if it weren't for us knowing what the moderation is typically like it would have gotten out of hand too fast. Either way, would you prefer too much moderation or not enough? If those are the options I'd prefer too much.
 

Midlake Crisis

Site Supporter
Location
Bakersfield, CA
I returned to PWCToday only to get help and camaraderie when I bought my Kawis, and it can't be denied that there is a LOT more love and help for Kawis over there. Along with the OP though I agree it would be great to build up that kind of support here, but right now it just doesn't happen. If you need Kawi expertise you are going to get a lot more response over there. The X overall is superior for the reasons others have stated, it just lacks the big K factor.
 

Vumad

Super Hero, with a cape!
Location
St. Pete, FL
I don't agree with you. There is a lot of knowledge here about kawis, and people here do still ride them. Look back at the questions too (just click the forum tree at the top of the thread). Many of the questions are obviously from newer riders or lower budgets. "I lost spark" "where should I buy my parts" etc. These are very manageable questions and not very kawi specific.

I started on this forum with a 650sx and X2 because a person at the lake said this is the place to be. I could have just as easily been sent to PWCtoday, or been told to go there when I first joined. I had plenty of support here. I own a superjet because I stayed here. I'm sure this is the case for a number of people. This section used to be very active, but over the past about 2 years we have started turning these people away.

Many young, inexperienced members start with old, low budget skis that need repairs. If we can't make a little time for them, then are we really supporting the sport?

Here's some food for thought. I have a superjet and a X2 in my back pocket. How many people out there are like me? How many people drive a modern car, but have a el camino in the garage because "its cool". I bet a number of members here still own X2 even if they don't ride them often. I certainly saw people in Daytona that showed up with a 10k stand up and a $800 X2.
 

Vumad

Super Hero, with a cape!
Location
St. Pete, FL
I just want to make an important note.

I'm not saying people shouldn't use PWCtoday.
Im not disagreeing that X2 owners are presently more active on pwctoday.
I'm not saying that Xh2o is better in every way.

What I am saying, is that I don't feel that directing people away from here is warranted.
 

Ducky

Back in the game!
Location
Charlotte, NC
Well I think if people want to stay here, they will stay here. I found my way over here from PWCtoday, but when I want X2 information, I go over there. If people ask stuff over here, I do my best to answer as well.
 

Vumad

Super Hero, with a cape!
Location
St. Pete, FL
Well I think if people want to stay here, they will stay here. I found my way over here from PWCtoday, but when I want X2 information, I go over there. If people ask stuff over here, I do my best to answer as well.

You're right.

Just so you know, I realize you made the comment in the most recent thread, but this thread is not directed at you. I've noticed this to be a steady trend over the past about 2 years and just decided I wanted to say something about it.
 

Ducky

Back in the game!
Location
Charlotte, NC
You're right.

Just so you know, I realize you made the comment in the most recent thread, but this thread is not directed at you. I've noticed this to be a steady trend over the past about 2 years and just decided I wanted to say something about it.

Not offended, and I am guilty of such things, but sometimes the best way to help someone is direct them to a better resource. People that are head over heals for X2s will probably stay over there, but the people that started from the bottom like me but had dreams of a freestyle ski will make their way over here.
 

tshank123

Yo hablo ingles
Location
Vegas
I can see what you mean but I also feel that if it weren't for us knowing what the moderation is typically like it would have gotten out of hand too fast. Either way, would you prefer too much moderation or not enough? If those are the options I'd prefer too much.

I get your point. People have adapted to the moderation here which keeps them more civil to begin with, which is a good thing. To answer your question though, I would rather have less moderation. Give us the benefit of the doubt that we can have an adult conversation and just deal with the troublemakers on a case by case basis. Its over-moderation in my opinion because we can't even talk about gay marriage because of the potential for offensive comments.

Sorry to derail your thread mate. If you want, Ill shut up now.
 

Vumad

Super Hero, with a cape!
Location
St. Pete, FL
I get your point. People have adapted to the moderation here which keeps them more civil to begin with, which is a good thing. To answer your question though, I would rather have less moderation. Give us the benefit of the doubt that we can have an adult conversation and just deal with the troublemakers on a case by case basis. Its over-moderation in my opinion because we can't even talk about gay marriage because of the potential for offensive comments.

Sorry to derail your thread mate. If you want, Ill shut up now.

It would be very hypocritical of me to get upset with you. Im just shy of 6k posts, so im pretty sure you could rather quickly come up with 5,000 posts of mine that could be considered similar.
 

SterlingSilva

-----------------
Location
Colorado Springs
I own both kawasaki and yamaha stand ups and I have for the most part always been able to find information by making the effort to search for it. Even a simple google search will return hits to both forums. I would never direct somebody to another forum as they are both great resources, but I would most certainly encourage somebody to put in the effort to search and research their own answer as I have done many times as it has taught me alot more than a simple answer would have. Not saying theres anything wrong with a helpful push in the right direction but I find many times people are lazy and just want the answer to all their problems handed to them.
 
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