Pro Freestyle Rule Changes

So the rules have to change... The top four riders in the world were disqualified because they were on equipment that is so new the rulebook can\'t keep up with it... I say leave it wide open for pro competition. We would see alot more innovation and hopefully some new tricks.


What do you think?

Lets try and keep this thread Hi-Jack free so we can forward it to the IJSBA.
 

tom21

havin fun
Location
clearwater FL
who cares what I think, shouldn't it be the guys who are competing and someday will be competing who should weigh in?

if it matters, you have my vote.
 
Seriously .... IJSBA sucks.... They are not leting the sport growing up... Rock routine was fantastic....
 
Location
Germany
It is easy!
Do it like the European ( EJSBA / Yves van Heers ) does:

No rules for PRO Freestyle!

Check out how many eropeans have been under the top three at the WF, in Amateure and Pro.

I think we need rules with limits for amateure at the WF, because it gets to expensiv.
For Pro, only a size limit and a 3 minutes routine and after they have all done so many Barrell Rolls, Flaires and Flips in the first two minutes, maybe we can see some other tricks after.
I competed 3 minutes at the UIM world championship in the past and I can lell you need more than 4 tricks in different variations to fill a 3 minutes routine.

Marc
 

Big Kahuna

Administrator
Location
Tuscaloosa, AL
So the rules have to change... The top four riders in the world were disqualified because they were on equipment that is so new the rulebook can\'t keep up with it... I say leave it wide open for pro competition. We would see alot more innovation and hopefully some new tricks.


What do you think?

Lets try and keep this thread Hi-Jack free so we can forward it to the IJSBA.

While I do not agree with how they handled this, In all fairness you stated that the IJSBA cannot keep up. Well, the first time the World saw these 2 new ski designs was at the world finals.Who can the IJSBA keep up with something it does not know about. What should have happened is contact should have been made with Scott Frazier before hand. Pro should be run what you brung.

Also, these hulls in Amatuer.......... Bull Pucky....... Also, you are not an amateur when your pulling flat water back flips.
 

GIL

Power In The Hands Of Few
Location
Cullman AL
There is a very simple cure to all this-Tech Inspect the ski's prior to competition!!! Furthermore, if you are a builder and want to bring new and innovative stuff to WF, simply submit the specs and a photo to IJSBA prior to the event for approval !!! IJSBA states they will accept the new and innovative ski into comp, then there is nothing to argue/protest.

I don't get why it has to be soooooo hard.
 
Location
Ohio
Seems simple to me. No rules. If you can put an anti gravity motor in a ski and shoot to the moon and back while performing 800 rolls and flips then you should be able to do it.

The people should have over ridden the judges IMO. In a way I guess they did with people not accepting stuff and spectators knowing full well who was best.

It seems really simple to me. Open class for pro freestyle. Otherwise the IJSBA becomes like most governing bodies.......a useless bureaucracy stuck in the dark ages unaware that the very people they SERVE dislike them (not personally) and their ridiculous rules.

Sorry...I am feeling exceptionally anti rules right now.
 
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jetskidude

"dirty sanchez"
there should be some kind of limit because the guy with 50k laying around and is in some kind of physical shape will dominate the average long time pro with a budget. i do agree amateurs doing backy's need to step up to pro. just my two sents
 

dbrutherford

Parts Whore
Location
Fairmont, WV
Here is my two cents.

For pro, the rules should be "run what you brung." Everyone is pretty much competing on 25k + boats anyways. I would suggest a displacement limit but really there isn't many engines out there that if they were 2000 cc's that would give you an advantage. It is like a law of diminishing returns. You are just adding more weight with a huge engine. I doubt you will see three or four cylinder engines in freestyle anytime soon.

I also thought of putting a dollar cap on the ski value. But that would be too hard to enforce. So again, run what you brung.

Another thought about judging is to have a list of specific tricks that the competitors have to preform. Like you must pull a flair, barrel roll, double trouble, flat water backy, ect... Then throw in old school tricks like subs, log rolls, monkey jumps, bull dogs, ect... The new routines while impressive in the difficulty of tricks, has become very boring to me. Sure when Malone had his 2005 and 2006 runs everyone was majorly impressed. But that was because not too many others were pulling those kind of tricks. Now everyone is at that level or very close to it. I like the old school routines that had flow from trick to trick a lot better. And what is it with just one run? I thought they used to do two or three runs with an average score or dropping the lowest run's score. Any other sport that has judge frestyle has multiple runs, not just one shot. Heck even the olympics has more than one go at events unless it is a race!

Another thought is that the conditions were flat out horrible the last xxx number of years. Maybe I am just too used to riding rivers but that wat was nothing but pure choppieness. It would be nice to try and have a large pond or pool to where the water was smoother and calmer.

Finally what ever happened to having ramps and things in competitions? I would like to see some ramps and rails or that up hill rapids. That is truely the innovation we need. The same old vanilla comps that go on now will never make it into the X Games!

I went white water rafting several years back and I got thinking how I should get a beater hull, pop rivet stainless steel plates about 1/16" thick to the bottom of it, and design a pump that could process the white water better. Then I was going to go out and beat the heck out of some mounatin streams and rivers around here in WV. That up hill rapid competition reminds me of this some what.

Rant Over, take it at face value but this years worlds with all the DQ'ing is a joke, we will never progress at this rate. This is why everyone likes the freeride ocean events anymore.

DBR
 

Big Kahuna

Administrator
Location
Tuscaloosa, AL
We have been talking about having a format like gymnastics and ice skating has. But something that I now understand, with these monster motors now, hood tricks and the like are just about impossible. I like the old school type stuff much more than the "Toss and Throw" show that we have now. But times have changed.
 

swanny

not safe for clowns
Location
portland
Two rules:

One: No rules
two: stadium night time under lights with boobies and rock and roll. sex and drugs optional.
 
pro freestyle - no rules

amateur - adapt the pro rules

BK - why do you think amateurs should not be doing backflips??? THat doesn't make sense to me. If you are progressing fast and learn them, why not let them do it??? Jared was gonna compete in Amateur but was bumped up to pro cause his motor was a few cc's too big. He does nice flips too..
 

GIL

Power In The Hands Of Few
Location
Cullman AL
pro freestyle - no rules

amateur - adapt the pro rules

BK - why do you think amateurs should not be doing backflips??? THat doesn't make sense to me. If you are progressing fast and learn them, why not let them do it??? Jared was gonna compete in Amateur but was bumped up to pro cause his motor was a few cc's too big. He does nice flips too..


Not trying to start chit here, but, if u can flatwater backflip, u r no longer a amateur. Just my 2cents.
 

Big Kahuna

Administrator
Location
Tuscaloosa, AL
pro freestyle - no rules

amateur - adapt the pro rules

BK - why do you think amateurs should not be doing backflips??? THat doesn't make sense to me. If you are progressing fast and learn them, why not let them do it??? Jared was gonna compete in Amateur but was bumped up to pro cause his motor was a few cc's too big. He does nice flips too..

There are some AM's that honestly should have gone pro 2 years ago.... Where do you cross the line.

It is one thing to get part of the way around, it is another to go all the way around. I am not talking about the guy that at the first of the season could not roll barely or flip and then through the season learns. Chad Cummings is a good example, last year he could barely do anything. Now look at him. I said at Nationals that the Pro's had better watch out, this kid has some serious talent. I am talking about the guys that for one or two years have been doing these tricks and are still in pro.
As far as Jared goes, if his motor was too large then his only option was to go pro. Not a jab, but either himself or his builder should have done a better job at building him a motor that is legal. He is a very good rider from the few video's I have seen of him.
 
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Don 79 TA

Still Fat....
what they should have is an open class then

in a way it kindda sucks, this seems to make the sport so way over priced for the average "joe" to get a ski like theirs

i personally like to follow the rules, and would like the competition to do so as well Iin any sporting type of event)

i don't compete in anything with this sport, i am fat a rec rider

i do like to see what can be done with "standard equipment" that the typical person can afford
in a way if i rode a stock setup (or close to it) and hung or beat someone heavily modified, i personally would feel great about that

what are these pro riders competing on, skis that cost about 40-50k? if not it's certinaly getting close.

i truly love seeing the evolving world of jetskis and therefore would like to see a "run what ya brung" class


in reality my point is meaningless since i don't compete
it should be the vote and voices of those that do

as a fan (of any sport) i like to see people within the rules
 

carbonjet

::::::::::::::::::
Location
USA
NO rules for freestyle PERIOD whether AM or PRO. It's not a race and should not be governed as such. Hopefully someone will pull there head out of there arse and fix this chit.
 
Location
So Cal
The only limit in am freestyle should be cc's. Light weight hulls need to be allowed. That would be so simple to enforce. You want to run a ski thats 3ft long go ahead. Some other guy wants to run a stock hull and do 2 mins of hood tricks go ahead. One of the best runs in AM freestyle was when Lowe did an almost perfect hood trick routine till he lost his ski. Pro class run what you brung.
 
The problem is no sponsors to pay or put up cash to make the sport accessible to most riders. I mean if we had big sponsors ,the cost of skis would be a non issue. Do you thing Bubba pays for his bikes??? We are in a catch 22... No money to fund big dollar skis, therefore the competition will be lower... I think if you pay for a nice ski and get good fast, you should not be penalized for it, just because you are still an amateur.

We need big dollar sponsors to make this sport more interesting and higher level of competition. just imagine how good some of these guys would be if they trained and rode jet skis 24/7...
 

stanton

High on jetskis.
Location
atascadero,ca
Seems simple to me. No rules. If you can put an anti gravity motor in a ski and shoot to the moon and back while performing 800 rolls and flips then you should be able to do it.

The people should have over ridden the judges IMO. In a way I guess they did with people not accepting stuff and spectators knowing full well who was best.

It seems really simple to me. Open class for pro freestyle. Otherwise the IJSBA becomes like most governing bodies.......a useless bureaucracy stuck in the dark ages unaware that the very people they SERVE dislike them (not personally) and their ridiculous rules.

Sorry...I am feeling exceptionally anti rules right now.

im going to make a backflip machine powered by a water pump. it will do 60bpm with an am on it.. yaaaaaaaaaaaaay
 

dbrutherford

Parts Whore
Location
Fairmont, WV
What about a claiming rule like back in the early days of MX?

For example if Fuji didn't like the FS1 as he did in fact claim it was unfair, he could have "claimed" it and used it for his run. Just a thought.

When Malone showed up in 95 with the snowmobile cylinders on the Octane bottom end Leniz protested. Yet nothing was done to Malone and his run was allowed to stand. Wouldn't it have been cooler if Lenzi "claimed" Malone's ski and was then had to make a run on it instead of his own?

Of course some will say that people could try and hurt or damage each other's skis trying to put each other at a disadvantage ect...

But my point is if someone has an "unfair" ski then you should have the oppurtunity to compete on it. This could still be a neat rule even if pro is set to unlimited. 9 times out of 10 you wouldn't be used to it or be able to ride someone else's ski the way you can ride your own ski so it very well may be a hinderence to yourself to "claims someone's ski. However that is the chance you take when you "claim" someon else's ski...

Just a thought.


So is anyone really going to send this to Mr. S. Fraisher?
 
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