Slow Cranking 62t 1000cc

[ribsmocha]

So here is what is going on. I have a Bob with a 1000cc Superjet 62T motor in it and it is struggling to start/crank. The ski was properly winterized and now that its riding season it is not cooperating. When trying to start it sounds as if the battery is very weak so I originally replaced the battery with a brand new lithium 260CCA battery. No luck with the battery replacement, still sounded weak when trying to start (slow 3-5 cranks then sounded like battery was dead). I tried removing plugs and ski cranks just fine so that leads me to believe no internal mechanical issues. Thinking it may be electrical current loss, I checked all electrical connections with multimeter to be good and even tried just attaching jumper cables directly to starter taking the E-box out of the equation. No luck, actually with jumper cables it didn’t sound as good.. Monitoring the voltage during cranking, voltage starts around 13-13.5VDC and drops to roughly 8-9VDC



Next I replaced the starter with a brand new high torque starter…no luck



I inspected the bendix and didn’t look to good so I replaced it, no luck.. however it does sound a bit stronger. At this point I have tried just about everything I can think of both electrically and mechanically.



Here the list:

1.New batteries

2.New Starter

3.New Bendix

4.Connected jumper cables as secondary ground

5.Tried jumper cables direct to starter (sounds worse actually which surprises me?)

6.Checked impeller for any binding (pump spins smooth)

7.Tried without plugs, Ski Cranks great

8.Removed starter, sanded down connection points

9. Added another ground from battery negative to crank case cover



All of the above has been tried with no luck, the ski will fire up with a quick shot of starter fluid but cranking sounds terrible. I am stumped so looking to the you guys for some potential last things you could recommend I check

Thanks

 

[550/440]

Have you tried the "old" starter in another ski just to rule out issues? It sounds like you've done everything else. Is it possible that your new battery is not good? I've heard of new batteries coming in as junk (never experienced it though).

Edit: Did you jump it with a known good battery - i.e. car or other good running ski battery?

 

[ribsmocha]

Have you tried the "old" starter in another ski just to rule out issues? It sounds like you've done everything else. Is it possible that your new battery is not good? I've heard of new batteries coming in as junk (never experienced it though).

Edit: Did you jump it with a known good battery - i.e. car or other good running ski battery?

Would a car battery be too many amps and blow up something in the e box or would it be fine? I also have a battery I could pull out of my superjet that cranks it easily

 

[Blue]

If its been sitting i bet one of the brushes in the starter is sticking due to a rusty brush holder disassemble the starter and check inside my guess is its rusty. Most likely the orings failed and let water in.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N900A using Tapatalk

 

[Magnum Mike]

I had a ring gear spin on a lightened flywheel last year. Without the plugs in the motor spun over fine with the starter, but with compression it turned the engine over slowly as the ring spun on the flywheel.

I swapped batteries, starters, cables, etc trying to diagnose. Big thanks to Paul Lehr for pointing me in the right direction. I had not even considered the ring gear spinning on the flywheel.

I marked a scratch on the flywheel and ring gear to confirm. After the first attempt at starting the scratches almost lined up like it had not slipped! Put the flywheel cover back on and did it again and the scratches were far apart.

This is probably not your issue but mentioning it since I had never heard of it happening until it happened to me.

 

[keno]

No, there is no such thing as a battery with too many CCA. Also try the known good battery

sent from the the lake.

 

[Harbor]

What brand new starter did you install ? Was it OE ? Seen a few cheap new ones be bad out if the box.

I like the ring gear spinging on flywheel issue I'll have to remember that.

Have you tried turning the crank by hand from the flywheel bolt with a socket wrench just to feel how smoothly and freely it rotates with spark plugs out to get a feel for any damaged crank bearings or pump/midshaft bearing

I see you did it with starter but curiouse how it is by hand

 

[ribsmocha]

I am interested in the flywheel idea as well. I was under the impression that the gear/teeth on flywheel were one piece.

Is it one piece from the factory? Or two? Not sure if I it has an aftermarket flywheel/ring gear.

I will try your suggestion of making marks and trying that.


I have not tried spinning by hand, only with starter. I will try as well.


One thing that sticks out to me though is the voltage drop I am seeing while cranking. I have tried additional grounds and jumper cables to try to eliminate a bad ground but it didnt help. Anything else I can check on this end?

 

[Harbor]

Voltage drop test a cross the high current posts of starter relay while cranking

 

[ribsmocha]

Voltage drop test a cross the high current posts of starter relay while cranking

Getting to the starter relay in the ebox is kinda a PITA. Right now I am just doing it on the battery posts and seeing a drop from around 12-13V down to 8-9....


Also it was an OEM starter

 

[MADMAT]

My ski does this exact same thing unless the batter is 70 degrees'ish. Low CCA sucks around here.....if the air temp is below 60 I can't even start my ski....lol...

Deka EXT-9....

 

[Harbor]

Might be easier to just jump the two high current B+ wires on the starter relay rather than go thru that paticater voltage drop test...... I'am totally serious about A possible defective new starter by the way, a guy on here posted looking for an "auto mechanic" with the same symptoms as yours but on his van and he'd just installed a new starter too, in the end it was a defective new starter.

Here is a pic of a simple voltage drop test off the top of my head and on the fly,
"we want to see most all the voltage potential Available in the circuit dropped by the load when energized, remaining voltage read by the meter is an indication of circuit resistance. Different circuits have different amounts if allowable voltage drop, I do not have a spec, my guess is 0 to 2 tents of a volt max maybe to .5 volts max. A good contact will drop very little voltage

Most rings gears are pressed on, not sure exactly on this one though

 

[Harbor]

OEM starter cool

 

[ribsmocha]

OK I will try to do voltage drop test from + on battery to Positive on starter.

I took a look at a parts diagram and it looks like I don't have a stock flywheel, and like you are saying most are pressed on. I will work on checking flywheel.


Regarding the starter, i tested it out of the ski directly off of battery and worked great. Obviously this is under a no load condition.

Hopefully one of these next tests will shed some light on problem.


Thanks for all the help and suggestions thus far. Stay tuned!

 

[ribsmocha]

Question regarding Voltage drop/potential losses etc.

By hooking jumper cables directly from battery (+) to the starter (+) and negative to flywheel bolt, shouldn't this eliminate all potential electrical loss issues? Even when doing this the ski barely cranks (slow 3-5 cranks then sounded like battery was dead).. If it were a bad ground or positive cable, I would expect it to crank properly with just jumper cables, but it actually cranks worse. This is what is puzzling me the most

Again this is with new battery and freshly charged, and tried with multiple batteries

 

[hink320]

I've found that OEM starters can barely turn over my big stroker motors. I bought a starter from EMS global direct on ebay to try it out because I had heard they were good quality and have a 1 year warranty. They turn my motors over way better than the OEM.

 

[Harbor]

Question regarding Voltage drop/potential losses etc.

By hooking jumper cables directly from battery (+) to the starter (+) and negative to flywheel bolt, shouldn't this eliminate all potential electrical loss issues? Even when doing this the ski barely cranks (slow 3-5 cranks then sounded like battery was dead).. If it were a bad ground or positive cable, I would expect it to crank properly with just jumper cables, but it actually cranks worse. This is what is puzzling me the most

Again this is with new battery and freshly charged, and tried with multiple batteries

Yes I agree, if your using high quality thick jumper cables, and that leaves a potential starter issue of some kind or a mechanical issue.

Hink320 mentions starter brands and OE having trouble turning over big CC strokers, yours ran all last season no issue? If so what brand is the one you took out any idea?

 

[ribsmocha]

Yes I agree, if your using high quality thick jumper cables, and that leaves a potential starter issue of some kind or a mechanical issue.

Hink320 mentions starter brands and OE having trouble turning over big CC strokers, yours ran all last season no issue? If so what brand is the one you took out any idea?

I'll check it out in a little bit, but for now: what's the best starter money can buy for big CC motors?

 

[Breese08SJ]

Might want to pull the starter out , reach in the starter hole with a finger and make sure the bendix is able to be turned freely and eliminate that from the equation.

 

[Harbor]

Maybe send Jetmaniac a pm on the starter brand and type question