Yami-Rider
TigerCraft FV-PRO
- Location
- Texoma
I built one over the winter for a buddy using the stock bearings that come with it, have atleast 40-50 hours and zero problems thus far.
Super Jet Solas Mag Pump Ate My Bearings- How About You?
- Thread starter tor*p*do
- Start date
Have been doing alot of research on this issue since it has now happened on 2 pumps that we built here. I had previously thought it was just improper pump assembly technique that was causing the issue. After several pumps that we built had the issue, it pointed to some other problem.
Bearing and seal brand do not seem to matter. Oem bearings and seals have failed for some while a/m bearings and seals have worked for others without issue.
I consulted with machinist guru Carl of Cold Fusion and he thinks that the interference fit of the bearings to the solas pump is a little too tight for stainless steel. The thick walled, harder stainless doesnt 'give' like the softer aluminum of oem or skat mag pump hub. Additionally he thinks the machining process can often leave a slight taper inside the solas housing, putting extra pressure of the front bearing where most failures have been. The tolerances are so tight that one pump can work fine and another be off just enough to cause a problem.
This makes proper assembly and pump alignment even more important. A pump that is misaligned puts even more stress on tight bearings adding to the problem. We are looking into honing the inside of the solas pumps to make the press fit better.
Bearing and seal brand do not seem to matter. Oem bearings and seals have failed for some while a/m bearings and seals have worked for others without issue.
I consulted with machinist guru Carl of Cold Fusion and he thinks that the interference fit of the bearings to the solas pump is a little too tight for stainless steel. The thick walled, harder stainless doesnt 'give' like the softer aluminum of oem or skat mag pump hub. Additionally he thinks the machining process can often leave a slight taper inside the solas housing, putting extra pressure of the front bearing where most failures have been. The tolerances are so tight that one pump can work fine and another be off just enough to cause a problem.
This makes proper assembly and pump alignment even more important. A pump that is misaligned puts even more stress on tight bearings adding to the problem. We are looking into honing the inside of the solas pumps to make the press fit better.
- Location
- Morris Ct
Is solas admitting to the issue and or replacing anything?
- Location
- Farmington Hills, MI
i guess i really lucked out then. I am running a solas mag with oem bearings w/ no issues. I did not know so many people were having issues even with experienced people installing the bearings.
Last winter was my first pump rebuild. I "pressed" the bearings in with a rubber mallet and some dowel rod. Kinda just crossed my fingers and hoped for the best.
Last winter was my first pump rebuild. I "pressed" the bearings in with a rubber mallet and some dowel rod. Kinda just crossed my fingers and hoped for the best.
- Location
- sunbury ,ohio
I run the solas with synthetic oil instead of grease .I dont know if it is better but you can easily spin the prop with your fingers therefore indicating that there is no binding after assembled . also dont forget to RAP the shaft and case sharply with a hammer several times after assembly , this will actually align the races perfectly if they were not aligned PERFECTLY by pressing , You can easily feel a difference in shaft turning resistance after you hit it with a hammer . Thats how I do it with no issues , I got one of the first solas pumps when they started selling them here on the X and have been running it ever since then , BTW I use a Brass punch to install my races , I dont have a press . IMO I also ''felt'' that the bearing races were a very tight fit during assembly of the pump but by not measuring the holes I cant say FOR SURE Just FWIW
- Location
- central florida
Depending on bearing used, there is only 1/10th to 8/10th" of a thousand ball clearance. If the housing has interference fit it would of course preload the bearing. - housing exposed to cold water shrinks, bearing heats up quickly and grows when run- might not be safe at 35000 feet.
feartheride
feartheride
- Location
- St.Catharines,On.Canada
You are assuming there is a problem with fit, that is yet to be determined. Pump misalignment could cause heat in bearings and decrease the radial tolerances causing the bearing to fail.
Has anyone measured the bores yet, what is the fit
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- Location
- Charlotte, north carolina
Me and my buddy both installed this mag pump in our SJ's this year in Feb. He used the WSM bearing kit... Bad idea.. The bearings failed in two weekends of riding... I used OEMs however and I didn't have any issues until I noticed I had two blown motor mounts.. While fixing those I noticed my midshaft seal was sitting next to my couplers...I left the ski in another state to be tinkered with and fixed bc I'm honestly just tired of working on my ski for a while...I'll be replacing all mounts with rhaas mounts.. Pressing a new midshaft and bearing kit into my old midshaft housing... a new driveshaft to replace my older worn one.. I'll check pump bearings when this is done...I really hope this doesn't lead back to the pump.
- Location
- Rexburg, ID
Mine blew up in about 5 min. I believe it was my fault installing the bearings. shiz is tight and they must have got bent or crooked not perfect square. I put the 15 year old stock sj bearings in taking more care and I have had no problems since.
Freakrider
X247
- Location
- Tampa Bay area
Good info from Fred and Chris....interesting thread. These stators are 5lbs 10 oz heavier than stock and can be potentially a pia and expensive with collateral damage just ask the OP.
Proformance1
Liquid Insanity
- Location
- New York Crew
Jetmaniac and Carl are spot on, as usual. I have been looking and researching this as well. Bearing fits are a tricky subject. Its not just the housing, its also the shaft diameter that plays into the bearing fits. You have to look at the grind fits and well as bore fits, then compare to the bearings used and what the recomended interference is. Very time consuming to do. This is not something that you can measure at home with some dial calipers. You need to get into tenths of a thousandths of inches here.
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- Location
- central florida
Yes, would be nice to remove - I'm guessing here- about 1 thou from the bore down to within 1/16 of bottom (bearings have outside chamfer). Regrettably the machine shops I know/trust would charge more than the cost of the housing. Please, start thinking, Carl.
- Location
- Plymouth, MA
We make stainless sheaves with stainless bearings. The body is cast stainless like the Solas. On all models we go to the max od of the hole min od bearing. In other words the bearing fits with light load press with the least amount of friction. We then made our own tool to peen the outer lip to lock in the bearing. This locks it in from the outer lip without interfering with the ID and OD of the bearing and hole.
If we do not do this process we have failures with the stainless bearings in both high load (weight) and high speed applications. Bearing manufactures made no difference. Koyo, SKS, Cheapo Sometingwong brand etc. We have had zero failures since doing this.
On a side note these pumps are cast stainless which means there are several molds. No two molds are alike. Solas has a good name out in the market but they are not Yamaha and I doubt the QC standards for part approvals are to what they really need to be for this part. I am not surprised this is happening and wait till the casting porosities and dis similar metals start playing a roll especially if the final treating process were not done correctly.
This is just my opinion :shrug: take it how you want.
If we do not do this process we have failures with the stainless bearings in both high load (weight) and high speed applications. Bearing manufactures made no difference. Koyo, SKS, Cheapo Sometingwong brand etc. We have had zero failures since doing this.
On a side note these pumps are cast stainless which means there are several molds. No two molds are alike. Solas has a good name out in the market but they are not Yamaha and I doubt the QC standards for part approvals are to what they really need to be for this part. I am not surprised this is happening and wait till the casting porosities and dis similar metals start playing a roll especially if the final treating process were not done correctly.
This is just my opinion :shrug: take it how you want.
Attachments
- Location
- central florida
SS does not conduct heat well, unlike aluminum. When the bearing heats up under load it will grow and with no place to go will squeeze the balls- ouch. Mr. WB800BLASTER, are you making your pulley bores size to size or a few tenths looser? I hope that's not proprietary info.
- Location
- Ogden, Utah
Not necessarily supporting WSM but last time I got a pump bearing kit from them it had quality Nachi Japanese bearings.
- Location
- Gardner Ks.
Can I have some advice please? I have a Solas Magnum for my SXR. Had it for almost a year and just found water inside the bearing housing.
I would like to have it rebuilt, and was thinking of asking JetManiac if he would do it for a fee.
But in the meantime (as in this weekend), I would like to ride. Can someone tell me how to get the old grease out so that it can be replaced with fresh grease or oil for the weekend? If I have to remove anything more than the shaft and conical spacer to do this, can someone also tell me how to press out the bearings?
Thank you all for very informative input.
I would like to have it rebuilt, and was thinking of asking JetManiac if he would do it for a fee.
But in the meantime (as in this weekend), I would like to ride. Can someone tell me how to get the old grease out so that it can be replaced with fresh grease or oil for the weekend? If I have to remove anything more than the shaft and conical spacer to do this, can someone also tell me how to press out the bearings?
Thank you all for very informative input.
Fro Diesel
creative control
- Location
- Kzoo
Send it to jetmaniac. I was in Florida and watched maniac (chris) rebuild mine. He has the knowledge and tools to do it right. I felt bad for taking time away from the build he was doing but Chris puts customers first.
I had 6oz of water and no grease in my solas. A dealer had built mine, someone other than maniac...big mistake. Don't gamble, send it to the maniac.
Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk 2
- Location
- Gardner Ks.
Thank you! I will ask him if he has the time.
Fro Diesel
creative control
- Location
- Kzoo
I am sure he has the time. I showed up at his house kinda expecting it to be done on the spot. A lot to ask of anyone. He is very reasonable on pricing, and will also carefully inspect your parts for damage.
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Proformance1
Liquid Insanity
- Location
- New York Crew
Chris is not just a parts saleman, he rides and takes the time to do research and development on his product to bring the best possible products to the market at a reasonable price and super fast!!!