D-Roc
I forgot!
- Location
- Dirty River Rider
the don't call me ol man rivers because i am younger than them.
The flatwater BF is dead.
- Thread starter WaveDemon
- Start date
the don't call me ol man rivers because i am younger than them.
- Location
- s florida
and where is Gil?? he would be all over this thread like "flies on chit"
man, I will say this for everyone, no one can take anything from anyone. I joined this sport for the fact of learning to do something new, and for the hope of learning bigger and better tricks. I dont have 20-30k to drop on state of the art machine so I just have to ride what I got, building on the ultinmate set-up in my eyes. No one can say the FW backflip is dead because there is alot of us that can't do it but only hopes of doing it one day in the river.
D-Roc
I forgot!
- Location
- Dirty River Rider
hey scott that is the way i feel too, also peoplet can see that lee stone's backflip on a badass ski are way more impressive than a rider falling over backwards while stuck in his footholds from power.
retroicon
XX-xx-XX-xx-XX
You don't have to "get it"... but the sport isn't progressing, it's getting worse. There are fewer tricks being performed in competitions than ever, and they're less and less rider skill, and more and more related to the budget of the rider.
If things were really progressing, the sport would be growing... it hasn't seen any growth since the mid 90's.
-Gary
D-Roc
I forgot!
- Location
- Dirty River Rider
the "sport" is doing whatever it is. I hear world finals is a joke for freestyle and from the racers. We had a racer goto daytona and come to our little freeride this weekend and he had a blast. The A/M products and users are growing. that is all i care about. Like i said i don't compete or race. i just flatwater freeride with hopes of waves on either Lake Ontario or Lake Erie.
retroicon
XX-xx-XX-xx-XX
Flatwater freeride isn't growing... and if the metric you're using for success is the amount of money that a small segment of the market is putting into their machines, that's a horrible way to measure things. There are fewer riders, fewer sponsorships, fewer aftermarket companies, and fewer competitions than ever before... there's no denying that.
Right now, one of the biggest barriers to entry for riders is the price of a competitive machine, which is why racing is seeing consistent year over year growth in the "spec" classes, while the freestyle competitions continue to get smaller. You're never, EVER, going to see flatwater grow unless the price of the machines comes down to near stock boat levels, and even then, you're pushing it... unfortunately, the prices for a competitive flatwater machine have continued to go the other way for as long as I can remember.
I can see how, Chris, could see this as a positive... but you're in Central Florida, in the middle of a group of buyers with deep pockets, and water to ride on within a couple of miles in any direction. (I live here too) In short, your view is skewed... you know 2 or 3 hull builders, engine builders, and ride with a group of guys with shops of their own, sponsorships, and/or deep pockets for the most part.
You've gotta look at the bigger picture...
It's practically dead. We're not on TV, all our magazines have disappeared, shops continue to close, and there are no more stock stand-ups being sold... and even guys (like me) who want to go out and watch competitions never hear about them until after they've already happened. There isn't a single measurable metric that points to this sport growing...
It's almost dead. It's a tiny niche, and it's going to continue to be for the foreseeable future...
-G
D-Roc
I forgot!
- Location
- Dirty River Rider
if i was in control of flatwater competition this is how i would set it up. 10 contestants in a wwf type cage with one 2'X2' opening. whistle blows, 1st three guys that make it out the opening move on. toss one secret built ski in the middle of the ride spot. this ski may be 1000cc or maybe 701cc. 1st dude to make it to the ski gets to put on the show and i will give him and the other two guys a trophy.
this thread is a non issue. who cares what someone else thinks about your tricks or what you post. especially if they're never in contact with each other except on a forum board. i could give two craps about what someone else thinks about how hard a trick is to do based on budget. u post something up here for comments and then when a comment comes along that u don't like it's a big word fight (it's like two dicks that bump into each other at a bar, now we gotta fight). don't post up if you don't like opinions...not everyone drinks ur type of kool-aid. what WaveDemon said comes off as prick-ish but so what. i don't ride surf and don't care to, however i like watching vids people post up of surf riding though. i've thought the same thing about the waves doing over half the work on a surf flip. it looks like the engine is doing the same amount in Josh's vid...who cares. the post was about how strong the engine was and it shows. very few of us can flip the coin for a engine that big, but i don't think it's a bad thing for those that can. i'm interested in seeing just how high, far or many flips can be done with that beast. you'd prolly land on the moon if you put that in surf. the sport is evolving in it's own ways. u may not like the direction but it doesn't care.
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AZRIDER
stupid desert
- Location
- TUCSON ARIZONA
their is room for everyone.......
and it seems to me people in my age segment (25) have very little knowledge of standups in general, but their seem to be more and more riders coming out of the wood work in my age group
not all can afford top-of-the-line in any sport, and more production and time will lower the prices of things.
How much would it have cost you to have even a stock square in 92? now you can get em running from free- 1500 bucks
and it seems to me people in my age segment (25) have very little knowledge of standups in general, but their seem to be more and more riders coming out of the wood work in my age group
not all can afford top-of-the-line in any sport, and more production and time will lower the prices of things.
How much would it have cost you to have even a stock square in 92? now you can get em running from free- 1500 bucks
- Location
- Saskatoon,SK
I learned the 'undertaker' last year, is it dead also?
- Location
- Huntington Beach, Ca
I say everyone that says the sport is dying due to lack of innovation (whether it be flatwater or surf) They should start the innovation... Front flips, kick flips, big throws(but actually land back in the tray) superman tray-grab flip, heel clicker flip, cliffhanger flip, hellclicker roll, The possibiliteis are endless... Just takes skills and a lot of balls! I personally am lacking enough of both haha
But think of it... a kickflip would be very doable
But think of it... a kickflip would be very doable
- Location
- Huntington Beach, Ca
http://chrisrosner.com/ check out his video.. about half way through if he were to not push the ski away he could have had a good chance at doing a kick flip haha
I don't care where the sport is going but I like to watch people do new to me trick and I try to learn them. All I know this sport has brought me to a world where you meet people and get to see new places, and we get to burn some gas to boot. Thanks Jetskiing.
I just dont see how some people can say a certain trick is dead. I will do all my tricks everytime I ride and I will be striving to do the ones that I can't. People with the skills and machines to do so; CHEERS! I will still watch your videos in jelousy.
I just dont see how some people can say a certain trick is dead. I will do all my tricks everytime I ride and I will be striving to do the ones that I can't. People with the skills and machines to do so; CHEERS! I will still watch your videos in jelousy.
- Location
- indonesia / Spain
until i can land it every time without a problem and loads of height it will never be dead to be , watching a guy on youtube back flip a ski on flat water is the reason i got into jet ski's , after seeing that i thought i have to do that .
so how can you say the sport it dead ? i brought a used SJ to start , moved for work brought a new one , built it up with every bit i could get hold of realized i was never going to do it on flat water no matter how much i threw at the SJ as it will still be a SJ in the end , so brought a XFS but it was set up very mild so iv ordered impeller , total loss and new power factor pipe .
so because of that first youtube clip i seen ,i have brought 3 ski's and a
load of parts thats what helps the sport grow people sending cash and buying bits etc .
its not about competitions its not about the amount of guys turning up at a race , its about the guys like me out there that have been inspired to get into this sport from seeing one guy in an empty flat lake flipping his ski .
since i have been trying 2 other guys here are now getting ski's to try the same thing , one is building a FS2 up with 1000cc and all the bling bits , the other one i sorted a guy i was buying parts off to build him a XFS with the 1100cc Dasa he sent the builder the 28,500 dollars last week .
in short your back flip is dead statement is wrong as with out it i wouldn't have got into the sport and these guys would have started building ski's
love the back flip :-}}}}
so how can you say the sport it dead ? i brought a used SJ to start , moved for work brought a new one , built it up with every bit i could get hold of realized i was never going to do it on flat water no matter how much i threw at the SJ as it will still be a SJ in the end , so brought a XFS but it was set up very mild so iv ordered impeller , total loss and new power factor pipe .
so because of that first youtube clip i seen ,i have brought 3 ski's and a
load of parts thats what helps the sport grow people sending cash and buying bits etc .its not about competitions its not about the amount of guys turning up at a race , its about the guys like me out there that have been inspired to get into this sport from seeing one guy in an empty flat lake flipping his ski .
since i have been trying 2 other guys here are now getting ski's to try the same thing , one is building a FS2 up with 1000cc and all the bling bits , the other one i sorted a guy i was buying parts off to build him a XFS with the 1100cc Dasa he sent the builder the 28,500 dollars last week .
in short your back flip is dead statement is wrong as with out it i wouldn't have got into the sport and these guys would have started building ski's
love the back flip :-}}}}
D-Roc
I forgot!
- Location
- Dirty River Rider
This will be a general comment to no one.
what about the FW rolls? they have been done over and over too, double troubles, etc. Hp has made these tricks easier because of the amount of air that can be achievable. I still think that they are a difficult trick to learn. Maybe someones brother can rip a nice roll for us with all machine and minimal ride time. That doesn't change anything to me. I have seen this coming for a while and WaveDemon said it first. I feel all ways on this. I love rolls and flips and ride flatwater, and love big fancy skis with 2 stroke motors, and would love to live near surf. I have always thought that a great machine will make you a better rider. but with the hp availavle now it seems a BF is as easy of a trick as a tailstand. I was thinking that shanes would be the first to prove it. He will reinforce this fact probably within a few more weeks. his machine is already more than enough to FW flip and roll but he is adding more hp to learn it quicker. if he keeps at it, he will get it with his ski as is. i have been making FW setup wakes for about 4-5 years now and always keep on top of the size and timing of it. I can hit them fast and hard and when i apply this to my FW roll, i tend to eat it because of how much speed my heavier less hp motor ski needs to be hitting the wake at. The more hp one has the slower and in contol they can approach a wake and execute the trick. The FW roll is tricky imo. i just had a revelation from watching that 900cc japan movie and noticed one more little trick for getting to the wake smoother. i will be practicing this move soon i hope. my roll attempts are crashing or not proper body position. the only way to learn the trick is to keep trying.
here are some flatwater rolls from non pro riders including myself.
my buddy steve with hp learning the roll after 2 seasons of crashing
me failing again.
[video=vimeo;6564071]http://www.vimeo.com/6564071[/video]
Well i guess after reading all these comments it is same to say everyone loves a BF or a good roll. if the roll isn't dead, then i guess the flip isn't either. if it is too easy, take away some hp.
what about the FW rolls? they have been done over and over too, double troubles, etc. Hp has made these tricks easier because of the amount of air that can be achievable. I still think that they are a difficult trick to learn. Maybe someones brother can rip a nice roll for us with all machine and minimal ride time. That doesn't change anything to me. I have seen this coming for a while and WaveDemon said it first. I feel all ways on this. I love rolls and flips and ride flatwater, and love big fancy skis with 2 stroke motors, and would love to live near surf. I have always thought that a great machine will make you a better rider. but with the hp availavle now it seems a BF is as easy of a trick as a tailstand. I was thinking that shanes would be the first to prove it. He will reinforce this fact probably within a few more weeks. his machine is already more than enough to FW flip and roll but he is adding more hp to learn it quicker. if he keeps at it, he will get it with his ski as is. i have been making FW setup wakes for about 4-5 years now and always keep on top of the size and timing of it. I can hit them fast and hard and when i apply this to my FW roll, i tend to eat it because of how much speed my heavier less hp motor ski needs to be hitting the wake at. The more hp one has the slower and in contol they can approach a wake and execute the trick. The FW roll is tricky imo. i just had a revelation from watching that 900cc japan movie and noticed one more little trick for getting to the wake smoother. i will be practicing this move soon i hope. my roll attempts are crashing or not proper body position. the only way to learn the trick is to keep trying.
here are some flatwater rolls from non pro riders including myself.
my buddy steve with hp learning the roll after 2 seasons of crashing
me failing again.
[video=vimeo;6564071]http://www.vimeo.com/6564071[/video]
Well i guess after reading all these comments it is same to say everyone loves a BF or a good roll. if the roll isn't dead, then i guess the flip isn't either. if it is too easy, take away some hp.
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I finally brought a bunch of flips around off boat wakes today.
I don't know that it's all that easy with my 760, but I don't really care if it is or not. (i know rolls are harder)
It's absolutely exhilarating, that's all I care about.
I don't know that it's all that easy with my 760, but I don't really care if it is or not. (i know rolls are harder)
It's absolutely exhilarating, that's all I care about.
WFO Speedracer
A lifetime ban is like a lifetime warranty !
- Location
- Alabama
Gil is on a religious sabbatical studying with the great master, the master is helping him find peace ,tranquility and teaching him how to do barrel rolls. When he gets back Gil says and I quote ( it will be on like Donky Kong b!tches)
I am not understanding this! I thought the goal was to be afraid for your skis "life"!
We get everthing from 3-4's to 13 footers here! All awesome! But you are right...its not often enough.
Idok
F1pro
- Location
- Nations oldest muthaF+++kin city
more pix of the superjet with the XFS style hood please..thast pretty badass!