Surfriding The ultimate all around surf hull......and why...

So alot of us have diff ways we ride to accomplish a variety of things in surf,but the general purpose is somewhat similar,rather your a invert freak or a surf rider extraordinaire. Ive riden a fs2,fr2evo,vision,surffreak,footrocket, rev,fxpro,badass,rok,matrix.and a number of diff modded sj skis..A few of these do alot of things well. while all these are not technically surf hulls,they all have been used as one.Ill get into my observations of each later.I think Many riders are after something that is light,nimble in the air,turns well flat,rails corners,slides easily rockered a bit,larger tray, further forward mounting pole,hood designs that wont crack or blow off sideways on impact. also hopefully doesnt ride super wet. If it were capable of high speed boat wake chasing without excessive porpoising and carving turns in flat would be a plus and lets even throw in there......ohhh wait for it .......... a flat water flip with a moderate motor....

Interested in hearing why the riders of these and other models feel their hull is best for their style of riding and how they fit into the list above,what they think is the best weight and length for a surf hull as well...
 
You rode an FR2 EVO and didn't think it was an awesome surf hull? I thought that is what it was designed for? Honestly, can any hull be fully judged after " a ride!"?
 
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No I dont think it can be fully evaluated in one ride,but im of the belief that if something feels immediately better and more easy to ride,it will be a better choice,If something has to be "gotten use to" long term. you may get use to it but its never as good as the one that stands out on first ride. Some of these hulls do just that.
The fr2 evo feels like a very easy to ride ski,I considered it for an other purpose as a demo as just about anyone will be able to ride it,is it the best in the list,short answer is.. no its not..not even close for me personally. It feels very difficult to tell a diff in it and a older fr2. except that it is harder to rail a corner even with the sponsons. If you liked the old fs2 you will certainly like the evo,But If I were going to choose between the 2 id go with the older fr2 cause I think it rails better even though I like the new evo hood better for surf.

227..opinions are what most things are based on....if your not a builder or a sponsored rider of a brand that opinion weighs in..the bias from just owning a hull is bad enough,but at least some reasoning can be included........right?
 
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I think a modular hull is the only why to "HAVE IT ALL" in one hull. I have limited experience ,but have ridden several AM hulls. The freak is hard to beat for an all rounder ...... Interested in getting my circus. I plan on making some removable tabbies and hull extensions. Maybe those mods will make It the magic hull .
 

Matt_E

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I've tried a few different hulls in surf - RN, SN, shortened RN, Octane, SXR, hacked up SXR (by Cannibal), FR2, REV, Superfreak -4.3, Superfreak -5.0, Footrocket, LWDE Revolution, and probably a few others I am forgetting - also with vastly different powerplants, from a 650 all the way to a 1000.
My favorites:

1. Footrocket. Extremely nimble, carves great, super easy recovery
2. Superfreak -5.0 with a mild motor. Rides like a Cadillac, super comfy for surf.
3. The rockered SXR that board member Cannibal did. Super fun ride in the surf. Handles a bit like a Freak, but more planted, more solid.

Also good were the FR2 and the LWDE.

My own Freak was way too much with my driveline. That was expected, I built a flatwater boat.
 
sportfish..I agree,Ive seen some hulls with the removable rear entire plate,rather than just rideplate sec. I like the idea.I wanted to ride the liteweight de cause of that feature but never got the opportunity. Its outa most peoples price range though.
I agree on the sf,it is very fun in surf,my only neg with it is I cant get it to rail a corner at all and higher speed handling,I know this isnt important to everyone but it is to me. Someone said if the rear bondrail was cut up some at the very end where it gets so deep it would rail better. They are all about stability and I love the rocker in the wave face but it just doesnt do well for me in higher speed areas and railing. Im refering to the -2 glass surffreak.I cant imagine the circus will be a good surf ski with out a ridiculous long rideplate.Id like to talk to tem about it someday,if he ever gets the glass surf hull thing in production again. I dont think any micro hull could qualify here,being a surfhull is the main goal with all the qualities listed above, being able to flat water flip being the least important......but possible
you are a pretty innovative person though,if you figure out away to adapt a plate to it to make it a contender,let me know

Matt...surprised to hear you say you liked the footrocket,I actually liked it alot also,I didnt think anyone with a sf would like it though,its totally opposite...in almost all respects,I would expect riders from the fx1 camp to love it though. I got to ride it in some crappy chop and it was a REALLY wet ride,this would have to be a clean surf day ski,youd have so much salt in your eyes you wouldnt be able to see chit on a less than perfect day...maybe some sort of add on nose guard like the rickter has would help it.....Id also prefer it a little bit longer,-14 total of a sj was a bit too short for my qualities above
I forgot about the sxr and octane,ive ridden both as well as the trinity sxr,they all plant the nose too much at speed and just feel huge for a surf hull.
 
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Matt_E

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I never had any issues with high speed handling on my Freak. I was immediately comfortable on it and the high speed handling felt a lot like an SXR stability wise. I have never accidentally dismounted at speed. Though I never gps'd it, I believe with my last driveline setup I had in it, I was getting near 60mph.

I agree with you on railing turns though and I pointed that out in my initial ride review of the Freak. Some people disagreed with me. I've had multiple people ride it over the years and none of them thought it carved well. It just doesn't sit low enough in the water for it. Now, if you put your weight towards the back and on the inside of the turn, you will get more hookup. But it's still no SJ or SXR.
 
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sportfish..I agree,Ive seen some hulls with the removable rear entire plate,rather than just rideplate sec. I like the idea.I wanted to ride the liteweight de cause of that feature but never got the opportunity. Its outa most peoples price range though.
I agree on the sf,it is very fun in surf,my only neg with it is I cant get it to rail a corner at all and higher speed handling,I know this isnt important to everyone but it is to me. Someone said if the rear bondrail was cut up some at the very end where it gets so deep it would rail better. They are all about stability and I love the rocker in the wave face but it just doesnt do well for me in higher speed areas and railing. Im refering to the -2 glass surffreak.I cant imagine the circus will be a good surf ski with out a ridiculous long rideplate.Id like to talk to tem about it someday,if he ever gets the glass surf hull thing in production again. I dont think any micro hull could qualify here,being a surfhull is the main goal with all the qualities listed above, being able to flat water flip being the least important......but possible
you are a pretty innovative person though,if you figure out away to adapt a plate to it to make it a contender,let me know

I run my freak chasing boats almost 100% of the time. You can't expect to lay it over wide open because it turns flat. If you want it to carve yo really have to get forward and get the nose to bite a little. I run 40-50+ mph regularly on my ski in sloppy conditions and chop and it's as stable as any ski I've ever ridden. In fact it's much more stable than my superjet was. You have to tailor the ski to your ride style just like anything else. Besides, there's only a few people still building engines you can hold wide open for more than a split second anymore anyway.
 
Its funny that both you guys feel the sf is good at speed,and will corner decent,but one thinks it turns better with weight on the tail and the other more weight over the nose? Im with you both on stability,it rocks there,but the ones ive ridden porpuise like crazy at speed,and ive shifted my weight all over it. I could really deal with that anyway as I dont go that fast often,but I do want something I can wring its neck in the corners or lay over HARD on a rail on bottom surf turns..What is making the boat have to turn so flat and can it be modified to rail and not loose TOO much of its fun slippery feel when held flat in the face of a wave?

Its not that the ski loses hookup while trying to rail a corner,it just slides out or gives you the giro feel of pushing you back upright outa the lean in rail corner setup. even with a mag the sf will fight the hell out of you trying to drag a hip or elbow in a corner

waveblaster783...hold that thought on a motor you cant hold wide open for more than a sec..theres something coming down the line built for surf with tons of torque built like nothing you have ever seen before...that you will be able to hold wide open in the right conditions as long as you like. and can hold on...and priced affordable at the surf market.....more on that later
 
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Matt_E

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I don't think it corners decent at all. I didn't say that.

I think it's simply too light for that. I didn't have a porpoising problem at all with my 760 setup, but with the 1000 it was definitely there. You had to ease it into speed and then it'd be fine.

Also, the weight shifting really only delayed the inevitable sliding out. It would still happen and it was a pain in the ass to do. I should know, I tried running it around buoy courses at every regional event I went to. Too exhausting.
But hey, I didn't buy that thing to carve buoys, y'know? I wanted a flatwater freestyle boat that could still do some surf and chase boats. And it was perfect for that.
No one buys an SXR and bitches about it not backflipping. (I hope not)

About holding big motors wide open - I know my setup could handle it just fine, but I couldn't. Sorry, when I approach 55-60mph on a 56lbs hull I tend to :):):):) my pants.
 
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Proformance1

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If I learned anything at body beach this weekend its that set up and motor pump combos made all the difference for me. You cannot judge a hull after one ride. Case in point, rode an xfs with a 900 and hated it. Set up for super short fw fs stuff, rode another one 1100 longer pole, footholds further back and thought it was the best most fluid of the day. Another case in point, rode a bob, didnt care for it, kicked the dash, nose high the whole time etc. Rode one here, set up perfect, felt smooth, fluid and planted the whole time. Flipped it my first try. My point is the two hulls my friends have that I have the most time on are the two that surprisingly I like to ride. Its becasue i already had experience and knew how to ride them, plus htey were set up similar to mine. Buy what you like and set it up for you, then ride the crap out of it. It will be the best hull :)
 
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chadman154

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I don't think it corners decent at all. I didn't say that.

I think it's simply too light for that. I didn't have a porpoising problem at all with my 760 setup, but with the 1000 it was definitely there. You had to ease it into speed and then it'd be fine.

Also, the weight shifting really only delayed the inevitable sliding out. It would still happen and it was a pain in the ass to do. I should know, I tried running it around buoy courses at every regional event I went to. Too exhausting.
But hey, I didn't buy that thing to carve buoys, y'know? I wanted a flatwater freestyle boat that could still do some surf and chase boats. And it was perfect for that.
No one buys an SXR and bitches about it not backflipping. (I hope not)

About holding big motors wide open - I know my setup could handle it just fine, but I couldn't. Sorry, when I approach 55-60mph on a 56lbs hull I tend to :):):):) my pants.

My freak with 148 mag and 916 php, has zero issues on increasing speed with ski. Grab the throttle and go.
 
Matt there is more to it than it being too light,We have two of the glass ver -2 sf here in our group and they are the same way trying to corner,Ive ridden light weight xft carbon sj skis back in the day that were prolly lighter than these,and i could rail the crap outa those as well,im about 170lbs 5ft 10

performance1 I agree on the short pole and foothold placement thing or just skis setup for fw in general, these can be stupid difficult to ride regardless of hull. Im talking about skis setup to ride surf,this is all I try..On these type skis I disagree on rideplate and motor setups, making it difficult to tell what is great and what is not.. If the boat is setup for surf its either right or it isnt. I rode a footrocket that was crazy under powered with a huge long rideplate and could tell immediately I liked the hull handling.
I also rode a number of hulls at body beach....its about perception and looking past things like power,tight or loose poles,weird strap placements and footholds and many others.
 
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Its funny that both you guys feel the sf is good at speed,and will corner decent,but one thinks it turns better with weight on the tail and the other more weight over the nose? Im with you both on stability,it rocks there,but the ones ive ridden porpuise like crazy at speed,and ive shifted my weight all over it. I could really deal with that anyway as I dont go that fast often,but I do want something I can wring its neck in the corners or lay over HARD on a rail on bottom surf turns..What is making the boat have to turn so flat and can it be modified to rail and not loose TOO much of its fun slippery feel when held flat in the face of a wave?

Its not that the ski loses hookup while trying to rail a corner,it just slides out or gives you the giro feel of pushing you back upright outa the lean in rail corner setup. even with a mag the sf will fight the hell out of you trying to drag a hip or elbow in a corner

waveblaster783...hold that thought on a motor you cant hold wide open for more than a sec..theres something coming down the line built for surf with tons of torque built like nothing you have ever seen before...that you will be able to hold wide open in the right conditions as long as you like. and can hold on...and priced affordable at the surf market.....more on that later


I have a D-cut plate, -2 hull and I can stand in the foot holds, lean back and hold it wide open all day. If it was purposing, something was wrong. This hull typically just stays flat. I'll have to post some video.

I'll look forward to that engine. Although I already have a builder I prefer. And if I'm thinking of who you're thinking of, then he likes my builder too....that made sense, right? haha.
 

Matt_E

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Chad, it was fine if you were already in the midrange. But from the very bottom, couldn't do it. Too light, too much power for that.

I wasn't the only guy to have that issue on that setup.

Edit: My hull setup was probably a little different from other Freaks. My -4.3 has a shorter top deck (back) than newer -5.0 Freaks. Seems that Tem now leaves the top untrimmed even when cutting the bottom.
Also I ran a flush cut carbon rockered ride plate.
 
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KTM434

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Its funny that both you guys feel the sf is good at speed,and will corner decent,but one thinks it turns better with weight on the tail and the other more weight over the nose? Im with you both on stability,it rocks there,but the ones ive ridden porpuise like crazy at speed,and ive shifted my weight all over it. I could really deal with that anyway as I dont go that fast often,but I do want something I can wring its neck in the corners or lay over HARD on a rail on bottom surf turns..What is making the boat have to turn so flat and can it be modified to rail and not loose TOO much of its fun slippery feel when held flat in the face of a wave?

Its not that the ski loses hookup while trying to rail a corner,it just slides out or gives you the giro feel of pushing you back upright outa the lean in rail corner setup. even with a mag the sf will fight the hell out of you trying to drag a hip or elbow in a corner

waveblaster783...hold that thought on a motor you cant hold wide open for more than a sec..theres something coming down the line built for surf with tons of torque built like nothing you have ever seen before...that you will be able to hold wide open in the right conditions as long as you like. and can hold on...and priced affordable at the surf market.....more on that later


You are still wanting to know the beat surf hull right? I understand the meaning "all around" surf hull but you are focusing very heavily on carving hard without sliding and high speed riding without porpoising. I don't do any of that type of riding inbetween sets of chest to head high surf or even small surf. I'm not bashing your desire for those things but maybe a full length ski would better suit you. Some people like their surf skis to be very loose and nimble (I do personally) but if you want your ski to stay planted and be more predictable then I'd say try some full length versions of these hulls or maybe just stick with a Superjet. If you want lightweight then get a carbon superjet.
It's nice to get other peoples opinions but this is exactly why you are going to get advise that may not relate to your preferences. When I read your first post about a surf hull I didn't think you'd be so adamant about high speed turning and straight line speed without porpoising... That kinda changed my view as your perfect surf hull. Maybe I'm way off but that's how I see it
 

550/440

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There is a LOT to be said about set up... short pole, long pole, pump, powerplant, etc. like mentioned above. If your pole is too long on a short ski, most people will hate it and say they can't ride it, or if it's all about flat water flips and nothing else, someone else will hate it. Even SJ's ride different depending on what they are set up with... way too many varibles unless you want to buy a ready to ride ski.
 
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