TNT triple yamaha pipe

waxhead

wannabe backflipper
Location
gold coast
The issue with the 760 electrics is it runs one rear cylinder retarded it does this via one of the lumps on the flywheel being retarded. You can machine the small lump of and then index the other lumps in a mill and run a zeeltronic I have done this. It's still a heavy flywheel. You can then make it total loss but it's not worth the effort.
 
The issue with the 760 electrics is it runs one rear cylinder retarded it does this via one of the lumps on the flywheel being retarded. You can machine the small lump of and then index the other lumps in a mill and run a zeeltronic I have done this. It's still a heavy flywheel. You can then make it total loss but it's not worth the effort.
The retarded rear cylinder was done by Yamaha to avoid crank torsion issues and associated deto on the heavier sit downs wasn't it? Standard on the B2/GP760 etc?
 
Ok, as Tim has pointed out, the bottom end some people obsess about doesn't get you anywhere. So running a heavy flywheel v's a super light TL flywheel would have to fall into the same argument. As I understand it, its really only the snap off the idle that there is going to a be measurable difference with the super light flywheel.

The rear cylinder also runs 5 psi less comp on a 760, so we can correct that with some new domes.

Now Im going to go over and read Nuklear's thread and see if it answers my 760 exhaust question.
 
Superjetjim,

The crank in a 760 is the same as a 50hp 650. I have read it was a warranty issue, so Yamaha retarded the rear cylinder and lowered the comp on that that cylinder.

Interesting point my mechanic pointed out. The pump loads the crankshaft on the rear. The Yamaha twins firing order is front cylinder, rear cylinder. So the front cylinder fires and twists the crank from the front. With the load of a sit down on it, the rear cylinder at full force can then twist the crank (as in the bad sort of twisting).

So calming down the bang from the rear was enough to stop twisting them.

Now apparently the Kwaka firing order is reversed and doesn't suffer the same problem.
 

waxhead

wannabe backflipper
Location
gold coast
Yes it was done for the b1 and gp. Not needed on the standups. This is pretty much the engine I have going into my fx1. A 760 with stock 44s. Some compression . 61x electrics and enhancer. V force reeds and a protec pipe
 

waxhead

wannabe backflipper
Location
gold coast
Ok, as Tim has pointed out, the bottom end some people obsess about doesn't get you anywhere. So running a heavy flywheel v's a super light TL flywheel would have to fall into the same argument. As I understand it, its really only the snap off the idle that there is going to a be measurable difference with the super light flywheel.

The rear cylinder also runs 5 psi less comp on a 760, so we can correct that with some new domes.

Now Im going to go over and read Nuklear's thread and see if it answers my 760 exhaust question.
I don't think the firing order has much to do with it as it's a twin. It may make a difference on a triple. But yeah your right on the crankshaft being the same. Or close to it. The early ones used to be hollow in the back. That was a great stock class cheat to help them get the jump lol
 
Awesome info in this thread for sure. Tim if you are looking to do a kawi triple pipe I am building an sxr 1100 right now and would be happy to lend the ski to you for a bit. I am decently local too.
 
Wax, you are on the right path, it's not going to e easy to get a watercraft motor to the 200hp mark.
But in my personal attempts I am not going over 860cc for the very reason you mentioned. Why try to feed a 88mm bore with small transfer ports. Bigger the bore gets smaller the transfer tunnels get.
I also believe the exhaust port shape is very wrong on most the billet cyl. I have had 18hp gains on a 900 I welded up the exhaust changed the shape.
I am going to do some work on a tpe cyl with 84.5 mm bore and 8mm stroker and i will post the results.
I will also post a actual dyno run graph as well. I do this because it's my stuff and if it gets negative feed back it's not bashing on anyone else trying to do this sport good.
My approach maybe different then others. I want more efficient eng not the biggest eng on the market.
I will not build a 62t based motor bigger then 880cc regardless of the customers request. Will turn that work away for many other who do build solid 900+ CC engines.
There are some very good engine builders still playing with watercraft engines but like most of us we are limited in what we can produce if we want to turn even the smallest of profits.
But watercraft biggest nemisis is pipe design and exhaust design. No other two stroke uses the exhaust manifold designs that watercraft engines do, am watercraft make the lowest hp to CC of most 2stroke race engines.
Why??
Example. Moto GP was in the 200 HP range in late 80's with 500cc
That technology is quite easy to obtain today with most the great two stroke GP guys floating around no longer working for top secret factory teams.
Why is it not finding it's way into watercraft in past 20yrs ??
Master blast. Thank you for comments.

For those who don't know me, I am an engine guy that got tired of building disappointing numbers in my watercraft engines so I decided to make my own pipe to give me an edge over competition. But I learned over the yrs it doesn't matter how much faster your boat is then your competitors you can't win of you can't stay on it.
In 94 jammer rode one of my engines at world finals and after a yr of bad luck he finished back on top with a boat that was 5mph slower then I floundered on all yr on tour. His boat was carb orated mine where EFI.

Nice to see someone on the board who doesn't consider 88mm a small piston.

I have also been pretty disappointed by many engines I've ridden. Tuning is a lost art and I'm still not sold on the new big piston engines.

We have a great engine builder local to us here in MD who has helped me tremendously over the years and it pains me to see so many people bypassing guys like him/you for the newest internet product.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Tuning is a lost art......

In Perth, Western Australia....my mechanic is working on skis that have pipes and pods with stock carb set ups. So even just basic tuning, changing the spring weight for pop off pressure isn't being done. Little alone the real art of tuning.
 

DAG

Yes, my balls tickled from that landing
Location
Charlotte, NC
Just curious if anyone knows for the 760, how many degrees does the crank core twist out of phase? Is it delayed say 2 degrees because the rear piston is actually that far behind where it's supposed to be due to the mechanical losses in the crank's material properties? Aka it still fires when piston is at TDC (assuming no timing advance).
 

Big Kahuna

Administrator
Location
Tuscaloosa, AL
Dag. You are really over thinking this. Also the staggered timing and compression is to keep the heat buildup down. There is an article on group's site about this.
 
But in my personal attempts I am not going over 860cc for the very reason you mentioned. Why try to feed a 88mm bore with small transfer ports.
I am going to do some work on a tpe cyl with 84.5 mm bore and 8mm stroker and i will post the results.

My approach maybe different then others. I want more efficient eng not the biggest eng on the market.
I will not build a 62t based motor bigger then 880cc regardless of the customers request.

But watercraft biggest nemisis is pipe design and exhaust design. No other two stroke uses the exhaust manifold designs that watercraft engines do, am watercraft make the lowest hp to CC of most 2stroke race engines.
Why??
.

900 is the sweet spot,the more time goes by and the more that is experimented on and created the more this becomes apparent. Using asymmetrical transfer sizes and shapes on the outside ports,does really help get the flow moving in a larger smoother arc,But original casts in the 85 mm bore size leave alot more room for nicer arcs on inside ports. Not to mention 85 mm pistons are much lighter,rev faster, a 8 to 10 mill long rod lightweight crank and gobs of extra torque, a triple exh port,appropriate roof angles on all ports and a pipe with a properly timed wave with water injection to keep the low rpm fuel charge from dumping and now your talkin my kinda motor.anything around 900 cc in direct drive and its all about flow with 62t,you can keep throwing larger cc pistons to the moon and not do any better than a 900 thats flowing like butter on the right pipe setup. Good bit of work being done right now with just that. Im interested to see how this project turns out for you as well.

Looking at low end hit vs top end hit from a rpm stand point is more technical than most care about. a motor that responds at the immediate same level the throttle is pulled and hits hard is "response" as well as linear . A motor that feels like it is ramping up in power a bit behind the rate the throttle is pulled and then pulls to the moon,is not a linear power curve, its a weak motor not making enough torque and power to feel nasty off idle. Most all would consider low end hit being the time it takes to pull the throttle and have the ski jump out of the water and struggle to keep pump in water,vs top end being the ski takes off smoothly and hits decent from idle then about 5 to 10 yrds outa the hole the pipe starts working and pulls your arms off all the way to the moon..rode my share of these.The freeride bpipe setups do sign off pretty quick,,but I guarantee you most all the freeriders would prefer the hit now,vs pull to the moon, now the demand for the pfp and other larger pipes is greater that many guys are building combo surf/flatwater skis and water injecting them the way the bbipe is done for easy tuning. Demand has changed tremendously.
 
im interested now on how can i make a polaris sled twin work in a ski with the farther bore spacing.......
It's already done- EME and Power Factor build Polaris based engines.
Doesn't take much to do it yourself, other than making it fit in your yamaha based hull and getting all the electronics and intakes and exhaust adapters, and...
 

DAG

Yes, my balls tickled from that landing
Location
Charlotte, NC
Dag. You are really over thinking this. Also the staggered timing and compression is to keep the heat buildup down. There is an article on group's site about this.
I tend to when I don't understand a concept. That's why I ask questions... (which still did not get answered)
 
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