WFO Speedracer
A lifetime ban is like a lifetime warranty !
- Location
- Alabama
Thats only an option on Yamahas and Seadoos, on Kawis not happening
What Hone?
- Thread starter Quinc
- Start date
Thats only an option on Yamahas and Seadoos, on Kawis not happening
- Location
- Charlotte, NC
i believe the best option to boring a cylinder would be with the sleeves installed and a plate bolted to the cylinder to keep the deck square so the bores come out true.
- Location
- Red Bluff CA
The best tool for centering a bore. Is a lathe and a 4 jaw chuck. And the ability to use a dial indicator.
I've done probably a hundred cylinders/sleeves now. Stihl. Husky. Yamaha. Rotax. Kawasaki. It's just alot slower than a dedicated cylinder machine. But works excellent.
If a guy can insert a sleeve, any way BUT true to the deck, please show me how. Genuinely curious why people think it's rocket surgery. Have you seen a typical machinist? Half of them are slobs who can't keep a work bench free of clutter. Bad hygiene. Bad with money. Idk. My experience with probably 70 of them 8n my life.
I can remember taking a cylinder to a Dedicated shop. Was legit attached to a napa. Told the guy 2mm over. Cause that's the pistons I had. Got a deal. He did it. Then when I pick it up. Proceeds to tell me he had to go through 2 sets of stones to get it true. Like wtf. This dude used a stone hone to bore my fawking cylinder out. Needless to say. It pushed 120 psi for about 10 minutes before it dropped below 90. Had to eat an entire build for a buddy because of it
I've done probably a hundred cylinders/sleeves now. Stihl. Husky. Yamaha. Rotax. Kawasaki. It's just alot slower than a dedicated cylinder machine. But works excellent.
If a guy can insert a sleeve, any way BUT true to the deck, please show me how. Genuinely curious why people think it's rocket surgery. Have you seen a typical machinist? Half of them are slobs who can't keep a work bench free of clutter. Bad hygiene. Bad with money. Idk. My experience with probably 70 of them 8n my life.
I can remember taking a cylinder to a Dedicated shop. Was legit attached to a napa. Told the guy 2mm over. Cause that's the pistons I had. Got a deal. He did it. Then when I pick it up. Proceeds to tell me he had to go through 2 sets of stones to get it true. Like wtf. This dude used a stone hone to bore my fawking cylinder out. Needless to say. It pushed 120 psi for about 10 minutes before it dropped below 90. Had to eat an entire build for a buddy because of it
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- Location
- Annapolis, Maryland
Just curious, but how difficult is it to get the ports in the sleeve perfectly aligned with those in the case when you reinstall them?
- Location
- Charlotte, NC
I am a machinist. Not one of my other machinist coworkers are anything like you're describing. Our shop is absolutely spotless. Obviously your machining knowledge is not nearly as good as you think. You have to be the first person I've heard of that suggests removing sleeves to bore the cylinder. That seems like twice the work to have the same outcome. Indicating a cylinder on a milling machine an using a boring bar will true the cylinder as good as any lathe. Not to mention a 4 jaw chuck is made for square parts so a 3 jaw chuck would work just fine. I can indicate any part on the milling machine to .0001 tolerance. If your machinist is as you described, perhaps you should find a better machinist.
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- Location
- Red Bluff CA
You work at a machine shop. And think you can get concentricity on a bore, with a 3 jaw chuck? You guys must not do many bores.
I'm not recommending pulling sleeves for Joe blow. I'm stating that is what I do. And I own a crap ton of stuff with engines. And work as a dedicated sole mechanic for a very large llc. Doing my own work benefits me greatly. I'm letting people know your machinist isn't as smart as you think he is. I am pretty familiar with machine code, and fixturing myself.
Yes. A vertical application is EASIER and FASTER to bore a ENGINE CYLINDER. Any other sort of boring. Or truing to concentricity. Is hands down best done on a lathe.
For those asking. Pulling and installing sleeves is cake walk. If you can get to the sleeve on your own accord. You can most definitely get them in and out.
- Location
- Charlotte, NC
i do different boring operations everyday haha. yes i can get concentricity with a 3 jaw chuck, its certainly not impossible. fortunately, we have a collet system at work so i dont use a 3 or 4 jaw chuck that often, nor is the lathe i use super large. However, lathes are not the end all be all for that. they definitely have their own flaws espeically with boring bars that are very long as you would need to bore a sleeve. Chattering is a common issue you can run into when using a boring bar of that length, as well as taper because you loose rigidity when the cutting tool is out that far. . the only reason i would feel the need to remove the sleeves to bore them in a lathe would be if i didnt have access to a milling machine, didnt know how to set one up, or was replacing them and was boring the new sleeves that were already removed before being installed. The cylinder is a machined surface as is the table on the milling machine, and any 123 blocks used to mount the cylinder. As long as the head is properly trammed in, and the cylinder is firmly held in place, you can just as easily achieve concentricity with the milling machine. plus the quill and boring bar used on a milling machine is a more rigid setup with far less chance of chatter.
Im not saying youre wrong, just saying that removing sleeves to bore them instead of using a milling machine is kinda like going around your ass to get to your elbow. if that method was in fact the best way, more shops would do that. lathes in general have better concentricity than milling machines but not always, definitely depends on the application.
Im not saying youre wrong, just saying that removing sleeves to bore them instead of using a milling machine is kinda like going around your ass to get to your elbow. if that method was in fact the best way, more shops would do that. lathes in general have better concentricity than milling machines but not always, definitely depends on the application.
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- Location
- Saskatoon,SK
Theres 10 different ways to skin a cat I guess? I have been boring cylinders for 40 years. I have 2 different sized Van Norman cylinder boring machines that use internal catspaw's for centering. When I am in production mode I average 20 minutes to bored and honed and chamfered per cylinder.
With these machines I can bore anything from a XR75 to a Chevy 350, 2" to 6" inches in diameter. The boring machine clamps itself true to the head surface of the block for the Chevy while its still in the vehicle.
In my opinion these machines are the ultimate way to bore cylinders.
With these machines I can bore anything from a XR75 to a Chevy 350, 2" to 6" inches in diameter. The boring machine clamps itself true to the head surface of the block for the Chevy while its still in the vehicle.
In my opinion these machines are the ultimate way to bore cylinders.
Big Kahuna
Administrator
- Location
- Tuscaloosa, AL
Wait, Boring cylinders with the block still in the car/truck??????
- Location
- Saskatoon,SK
Yes, of course piston has to come out first. These machines fit to the top head surface and have a clamp that fits in the cylinder beside the one you would be boring.
Shop next to mine in the 80’s used a portable boring bar/maachine like you… worked good, he also rebuild diesel fuel injection pumps… that machine was pretty cool too…
- Location
- Saskatoon,SK
And seeing as this thread started about what hone to use I also use a Sunnen AN111 ridgid hone with AN500 stones to finish, and install torque plates when honing for all my fancy friends, that's how you get a perfect bore in my opinion!
- Location
- Annapolis, Maryland
What are people's opinions on the Lisle 15000 ENGINE CYLINDER HONE? Obviously, they aren't as nice as a Sunnen but they are also a good bit cheaper.
WFO Speedracer
A lifetime ban is like a lifetime warranty !
- Location
- Alabama
That will work just fine ,Ammco also makes a good cylinder hone
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- Location
- Annapolis, Maryland
Here's a related question: What is the series of grits you would want to use when honing a cylinder? Lets say for both the case when all you want is a light deglaze and for the case of starting with a fresh bore?
DylanS
Gorilla Smasher
- Location
- Lebanon Pa
Quinc
Buy a Superjet
- Location
- California
WFO Speedracer
A lifetime ban is like a lifetime warranty !
- Location
- Alabama
THATS ONLY FOR PROFESSIONALS
- Location
- Ahwahnee, CA
Are they using peanut butter or HONEy?
DylanS
Gorilla Smasher
- Location
- Lebanon Pa
All Yamaha engines these days are Chinese clone enginesThat is how I hone my Chinese clone engines.
It does take a certain fineness to handle such a fine instrument..
I prefer to use beach sand for the initial run down then sandbox sand for my finishing pass.