I know several freestylers who swear by the oem 760 reeds which have the same cages as 701 62t. I know that the stock composite 760 reeds seem to be very reliable. Every 760 motor that I have taken apart the reeds were in good condition, and this includes some abused, sunk crap. No cracked edges or memory issues.
what is the best performing and lasting reed
- Thread starter masterblaster
- Start date
masterblaster
X-H2
Ok, so do aftermarket reeds (as opposed to oem metal ones) really make such a difference? I am torn, not sure whether opt for something cheap (carbon tech reed petals) or go for something like the M-16 for my (future ported 701) ski... M-16 is like 500 usd, carbontech are like 80 usd...
I can tell you carbon tech make a diff over stockers,but I have never done back to back with any of the rest of these.If I were running stock carbs the most id do is carbontechs,but with big 48s its all about more flow more power.the m16s are way over priced not even a option really unless you get arts replacment pedals,this makes the price even worse
waxhead
wannabe backflipper
- Location
- gold coast
I have tried a rack of different reeds
The boysen ones dont make as much power and have less throttle response then v-force
r&d are hard to get parts for
V-force rock the world
If people actually knew how the reeds worked then you would realise its not an issue of flow but of reed responce
When the transfers open on a good pipe will pull such a neg pressure in the case that it will open the reeds
They will then close again at bdc and then open again as the piston goes up the bore
This is called the 2nd reed opening and v-force do it well
Due to the fact that there reed angle is less and so they go to max flow quicker
A boysen doesnt do this anywhere near as well as a v-force
So while the boysen looks awesome and you think it will flow more, its inferior to the v-force due to reed responce
The boysen ones dont make as much power and have less throttle response then v-force
r&d are hard to get parts for
V-force rock the world
If people actually knew how the reeds worked then you would realise its not an issue of flow but of reed responce
When the transfers open on a good pipe will pull such a neg pressure in the case that it will open the reeds
They will then close again at bdc and then open again as the piston goes up the bore
This is called the 2nd reed opening and v-force do it well
Due to the fact that there reed angle is less and so they go to max flow quicker
A boysen doesnt do this anywhere near as well as a v-force
So while the boysen looks awesome and you think it will flow more, its inferior to the v-force due to reed responce
masterblaster
X-H2
matt...I meant they cost too much and the reeds wear out crazy fast so you need to buy better pedals to even consider them.yes cost even more...so why bother
wax...what ver vforce are you talking about,my vf look to sit at the same angle as stock,but the boyesen do sit at diff angle inside their mani.Vf work off the concept of more full length reed tips,boyesen does the same thing but with shorter 3 stage reeds.suppose to be a better freq flow.I agree though the vf pedals are far better,im going to try the vf outers on these boyesens and see how they feel.
Gotta give boyesen some credit though,talked with their tech and they are now making their outer reeds from pre bent material to seal and last better.he is sending me some new ones free as well as some custom ones i requested. really good people to deal with.
im interested in hearing how you came to that conclusion though. I know you are into racing.I would think a good reed for freestyle that just braps around constantly would be totally diff from a reed that would work well in the upper rpms . we need instant responce more than rpms
wax...what ver vforce are you talking about,my vf look to sit at the same angle as stock,but the boyesen do sit at diff angle inside their mani.Vf work off the concept of more full length reed tips,boyesen does the same thing but with shorter 3 stage reeds.suppose to be a better freq flow.I agree though the vf pedals are far better,im going to try the vf outers on these boyesens and see how they feel.
Gotta give boyesen some credit though,talked with their tech and they are now making their outer reeds from pre bent material to seal and last better.he is sending me some new ones free as well as some custom ones i requested. really good people to deal with.
im interested in hearing how you came to that conclusion though. I know you are into racing.I would think a good reed for freestyle that just braps around constantly would be totally diff from a reed that would work well in the upper rpms . we need instant responce more than rpms
waxhead
wannabe backflipper
- Location
- gold coast
Im actually building more free style engines than ever for people now
Infact its all I do now
When i am talking about the angle I am talking about the angle of the reeds on the stops
Ie i think its about 25 degrees on the v-force to about 60-70 on a stock set of reeds
The v-force will give you better throttle responce
On a throttle responce point of view its the same
when your trying to holeshot throttle responce is paramount
Infact its all I do now
When i am talking about the angle I am talking about the angle of the reeds on the stops
Ie i think its about 25 degrees on the v-force to about 60-70 on a stock set of reeds
The v-force will give you better throttle responce
On a throttle responce point of view its the same
when your trying to holeshot throttle responce is paramount
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masterblaster
X-H2
hmm, Ill compare the vf1 and 2s i have to the cage angle on the boyesens once they are mounted in the angled boyesen intake. have you ever tested them back to back and felt a diff,what carbs were you using?
waxhead
wannabe backflipper
- Location
- gold coast
The cage angle on the v-force is smaller it has to be to allow two reed blocks to fit where they used to be one
Im not talking about aproach angle to the cases im just talking about reeds only
To put it another way
how far does the reed have to open to achieve x amount of flow
On a v-force since there is four avliable air passages versus the two on a normal reed block
So there for they are able to respond faster in the 2nd opening stage as I explained before
If you just look at the flow of a reed and not the responce time then your not really looking at the whole picture
The carbs are not really the issue here as to the throttle reponce by the reeds
But I have tried full spectrums novis etc with both boysen and v-force reeds
results are the same
Im not talking about aproach angle to the cases im just talking about reeds only
To put it another way
how far does the reed have to open to achieve x amount of flow
On a v-force since there is four avliable air passages versus the two on a normal reed block
So there for they are able to respond faster in the 2nd opening stage as I explained before
If you just look at the flow of a reed and not the responce time then your not really looking at the whole picture
The carbs are not really the issue here as to the throttle reponce by the reeds
But I have tried full spectrums novis etc with both boysen and v-force reeds
results are the same
masterblaster
X-H2
huh interesting point, i would have thought the approach angle on the cases would be the bigger deal. the snappy response of the vforce reeds do feel much better as well. But the flow of the cage for a low end freestlyle motor has to matter,vf came out with the better flowing vf3 that takes custom stuffers based on what the motors purpose is. but the build qual is still cheap plastic junk in comparison
As far as carbs I meant size more than brand,I assume you are talking about 48s
As far as carbs I meant size more than brand,I assume you are talking about 48s
waxhead
wannabe backflipper
- Location
- gold coast
The approach angle on the reed cage is of benefit but since they are the same between the reed blocks its not really relevant
We are talking reeds / reed blocks
Im not saying that the v-force doesnt out flow the Boysens, if i had to bet on it i would say they do
But im saying they sure as hell respond quicker so you can use the 2nd reed opening
Its no point having a massive avliable flow if you dont have the responce time to actually open fully
Even if the v-force reeds dont flow as much they open quicker and thus are at max flow quicker than the slower opening reeds
So total flow in a given time would be higher
But yes they are not made from alloy like the boysen, it hasnt been a drama for me but some people may have had issues with it
We are talking reeds / reed blocks
Im not saying that the v-force doesnt out flow the Boysens, if i had to bet on it i would say they do
But im saying they sure as hell respond quicker so you can use the 2nd reed opening
Its no point having a massive avliable flow if you dont have the responce time to actually open fully
Even if the v-force reeds dont flow as much they open quicker and thus are at max flow quicker than the slower opening reeds
So total flow in a given time would be higher
But yes they are not made from alloy like the boysen, it hasnt been a drama for me but some people may have had issues with it
Art cuts his own. I'm running them in my jet works ada motor . Granted they don't have much time on them , but art says they should last about three seasons 6 drums of fuel or which ever comes first . I think he cuts reeds for several other applications. I do know they are his design / ground to his specs.
masterblaster
X-H2
i have not had issues with the vf2 cages yet but they are not as old as the vf1 cages and I have had tons of problems with those. Be interesting to see how the vf2 reed pedal does on the last stage of this boyesen valve.It feels MUCH snappier than the old one did even when it was new.It does open a little more easy than the old one also,but considering I ride in the lower rpms and brap alot,it may be way better for this type ap
sprortfish,whats he make them from glass or carbon?Sometimes I wonder if it matters,they prolly use the same resin to make them all
sprortfish,whats he make them from glass or carbon?Sometimes I wonder if it matters,they prolly use the same resin to make them all
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Kennay
Squarenose for the _____
- Location
- Myrtle Beach, SC
Or a difference between epoxy and poly/vinyl :sneaky:
masterblaster
X-H2
scorn, these vf1s are in motors from years back,lol.they still make the replacment pedals,even though they are not worth the time to replace.
there has to be so much more resin used in carbon reeds in order to get them glossy and flat to seal. another process altogether than carbon hulls
there has to be so much more resin used in carbon reeds in order to get them glossy and flat to seal. another process altogether than carbon hulls
Kennay
Squarenose for the _____
- Location
- Myrtle Beach, SC
You don't have the habit of talking completely out of your ass do you? Any chance there are fingers coming out of your cheeks that allow it to type too?
waxhead
wannabe backflipper
- Location
- gold coast
I have used v-force II for three seasons before replacing reed petals and i just did that to insure i didnt get a breakage in the future
I had a set of boysens i replaced the reeds twice on them in a season , they were lifting after a few sessions
V-force may be made of plastic but its some damn strong plastic
V-force 1 reeds were known for breaking , you can tell the difference by the colour of the reed block
I had a set of boysens i replaced the reeds twice on them in a season , they were lifting after a few sessions
V-force may be made of plastic but its some damn strong plastic
V-force 1 reeds were known for breaking , you can tell the difference by the colour of the reed block
masterblaster
X-H2
wax. I dont have that much time yet on my vf2s,but I do have some vf1s with that much time,they arent cracked but they get real loose in the middle and dont seal.I agree on the boyesen reeds crapping out quick.Did you have any issue with the other 2 inner sets? Talked with the head tech at boyesen about their raw material,apparently there have been some revisions of materials and pre-bent heat formed glass. that said he was very nice guy and agreed to send me some custom made carbon outer reeds made from another brand of raw material they use that so far I much prefer.Im going to test the vf2 reeds on the outer of the boyesen cage as well.I believe with the constant off idle brap brap riding style we use,the second and third stage are not being used anywhere near as much as the softer outer most set.so we shall see,maybe have the best of both worlds.
kennay...speaking of azz if you stuck your head up yours you would be of more help on the topic
kennay...speaking of azz if you stuck your head up yours you would be of more help on the topic
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waxhead
wannabe backflipper
- Location
- gold coast
I never tried v-force reeds on a boysen reed block
I think because the v-force don't bend as much to get the same air flow they are less likely to wear out
I never had any issue with v-force twos at all
well not true i did have a customer hydraulic a set but cant really do much about that
I think because the v-force don't bend as much to get the same air flow they are less likely to wear out
I never had any issue with v-force twos at all
well not true i did have a customer hydraulic a set but cant really do much about that