What mods to make flatwater BFs easier?

[Philip Clemmons]

Everyone says power but even a 1000cc engine won't get someone around that doesn't know what's going on.

So getting back on topic..... You should have a solid crack at a backflip with a b piped motor with total loss and a stock hull provided you're using boat wakes. I've found that shortening the pole will help you pull the nose around a little faster but I can't ride with a shortened pole because it kills my back. Trim will help too but if your plan is to flip off a boat wake, you want to limit your trims throw. Extra trim speeds up the rotation but you lose height so you need to find a happy medium. Lastly, if you aren't kicking into your footholds, fix that. I just bought all the stuff to fix mine. I don't come out of my footholds under normal conditions but they're loose so whenever I go inverted, it's tough to stay in the holds. I want to straighten my legs but every time I do right now, I pop out of the holds so my form has to suck just to prevent coming out.

Great point but whats the secret? Shane should have made it around with all that height and trim (no offense bro), but he had no rotation. You see several vids of guys with good setups landing on their back. Whats the secret to the rotation? Heres another example of a nice setup that wont get around (no offense meant to anyone..........I'm sure I cant do any better)

Now for the record, I havent tried one myself yet, but am building my flatwater boat now. Should be done in two weeks. I might be the next vid of a nice setup that flips like a brick....................... Malone flipped a full length rev (282 lbs) with my 8 mil that wasnt too dialed in at the time. Theres some "magic" to it but I dont know what it is. Malone mentioned rotating from the hips...................anyone?

 

[Jr Freestyle]

haha. all I have say is that it ain't a flatwater backflip unless you do it via your own set-up wake. Learn to make and hit a set-up wake even before you think about flatwater backflips.

In a superjets case, all the bolt ons, a rear hull cut, super short ride plate, ported 701, b-pipe, total loss and trim it is able to be done.

LOL .... i want to see that
Off a boat wake yes.. off your own set up wake no.

 

[D-Roc]

Its going to vary from rider to rider. The better the rider, the better the setup wake gets made/hit, once a rider can do them then I think the less motor that will be required. The more motor, the bigger the height should be, the bigger air should need less trim. The less motor, more trim? Then there is the hull itself. shorter the better I am thinking. Does anyone think that flatwater flips can be done without trim if they have a perfect setup wake, big motor and AM hull? some guys can get such height it seems no different than a small surf wave. guys have been doing flips of surf waves for decades without trim.

 

[shanes]

Great point but whats the secret? Shane should have made it around with all that height and trim (no offense bro), but he had no rotation. You see several vids of guys with good setups landing on their back. Whats the secret to the rotation? Heres another example of a nice setup that wont get around (no offense meant to anyone..........I'm sure I cant do any better)

no offense taken mate that was my first ever try of doing it i had no one to get tips off only youtube :-}} at least i know what i did wrong , to fast entry no pulling back and throwing my head back to get the rotation , but you have to start some where right :-}}

like i said someone that new what they where doing would have landed it easy

 

[sicksxr07]

Its going to vary from rider to rider. The better the rider, the better the setup wake gets made/hit, once a rider can do them then I think the less motor that will be required. The more motor, the bigger the height should be, the bigger air should need less trim. The less motor, more trim? Then there is the hull itself. shorter the better I am thinking. Does anyone think that flatwater flips can be done without trim if they have a perfect setup wake, big motor and AM hull? some guys can get such height it seems no different than a small surf wave. guys have been doing flips of surf waves for decades without trim.

Without a doubt . A aftermarket hull should be able to flip no prob with a 1000cc motor with no trim off your own setup wake. Will only a pro be able to do it No! That's my opinion. My q8 should be ready this weekend and that only getting a kawi 850 after break in
I'll post some vids up of trim flatwater backies and no trim backies

 

[D-Roc]

cool idea. I think having a big motor could help learn the trick when the rider can get the power down and timing correct. the added height should help him learn the proper body input. It will be great to watch how you and shane will progress on a top notch skis.

 

[sicksxr07]

cool idea. I think having a big motor could help learn the trick when the rider can get the power down and timing correct. the added height should help him learn the proper body input. It will be great to watch how you and shane will progress on a top notch skis.

with the same 850 before i had art rework it. i was flatwater flipping my 330rtr sxr. altought i have no vidoe proof. 2 guys on this forum have seen me do it multiple times.. it took me almost a whole summer to learn.. so this q8 should make it around with no trim

 

[D-Roc]

you can bolt on a nice DASA 900+ PV topend on them there cases down the road too. Then having the technique already, you should be able to start doing the bigger style BF vs the "rider's head staying in one spot" kind that the smaller motored skis tend to do. sweet. I have no trim installed but have a -7 hull. I have been playing with the BF setup wake but have not tried pulling the trigger off one.

 

[motoman96]

Just do it! It's only water....lol

 

[scotts2t]

how can you call it a flatwater BF if is nohing but you, your ski, and flatwater? it isn't a flatwater BF if there is a boat involved! then it would be called a boat wake BF.....

 

[munki63]

Lol, so we now have a boat wake BF, set-up BF, surf BF.... A true flatwater back flip cannot be done unless your cruising along and you pull the trim on you -7 2000cc light weight hull and that my friends is a true flatwater BF lol

 

[D-Roc]

I alway thought of Flatwater Roll and Flips as ones a rider does with his own setup wake, no boat, no lake chop/waves, no surf. If your flipping and rolling off boat wakes that is cool but its cheating for "flatwater". some of the difficulty in these tricks for flatwater is making and hitting the setup wake.

 

[D-Roc]

Just do it! It's only water....lol

It is only water. I have done the nut sacker jumps off a setup wake but that is nowhere close to a back flip. I just don't see myself getting around without trim because i need to learn the trick. Maybe This weekend we will get some video of some attempts from the GTA boys. we should be able to fill up the FAIL thread pretty quick.

 

[papp]

with the same 850 before i had art rework it. i was flatwater flipping my 330rtr sxr. altought i have no vidoe proof. 2 guys on this forum have seen me do it multiple times.. it took me almost a whole summer to learn.. so this q8 should make it around with no trim

I'll be next to u on my 735 sj trying like hell. I think with the new pole location and rockered nose this little girl will flatwater backie.

 

[NorCalSJ]

I'd think it would be better to try bf's off of boat wakes first or in the surf to learn the trick and once you finally learn it then try with the setup wakes on flatwater.

Besides the light weight...a/m hulls usually have the pole bracket moved way up on the nose which seems like that is done to help bring the nose around quicker. better leverage?

 

[Waternut]

You might feel cooler about yourself if you do what everyone is calling a "flatwater backflip" but 99% of the population won't know the difference between you pulling a backflip off your own wake or a monster boats wake. Heck all of my friends that don't jetski are impressed if they see someone barely nose a ski in and not even ride out. A backflip is a backflip... Are you going to call all the surf riders cheaters now too because they use a wave? Do you think the crowd at a moto-x game cares if the guys flip off a huge custom built ramp instead of a natural dirt bank?

The trick requires some skill, bravery, and some form of a wake...don't take the glory away from someone who's excited for pulling off his first backflip because you think that the only true backflip is off of a 15 foot wave in Austrailia or off of a 2 foot wave created by someone in a custom built carbon hull with a 1000+cc motor that costs over $40k.

 

[NorCalSJ]

You might feel cooler about yourself if you do what everyone is calling a "flatwater backflip" but 99% of the population won't know the difference between you pulling a backflip off your own wake or a monster boats wake. Heck all of my friends that don't jetski are impressed if they see someone barely nose a ski in and not even ride out. A backflip is a backflip... Are you going to call all the surf riders cheaters now too because they use a wave? Do you think the crowd at a moto-x game cares if the guys flip off a huge custom built ramp instead of a natural dirt bank?

The trick requires some skill, bravery, and some form of a wake...don't take the glory away from someone who's excited for pulling off his first backflip because you think that the only true backflip is off of a 15 foot wave in Austrailia or off of a 2 foot wave created by someone in a custom built carbon hull with a 1000+cc motor that costs over $40k.

I agree 100% who cares how you do it...its badass in every form.

 

[WaveDemon]

You might feel cooler about yourself if you do what everyone is calling a "flatwater backflip" but 99% of the population won't know the difference between you pulling a backflip off your own wake or a monster boats wake. Heck all of my friends that don't jetski are impressed if they see someone barely nose a ski in and not even ride out. A backflip is a backflip... Are you going to call all the surf riders cheaters now too because they use a wave? Do you think the crowd at a moto-x game cares if the guys flip off a huge custom built ramp instead of a natural dirt bank?

The trick requires some skill, bravery, and some form of a wake...don't take the glory away from someone who's excited for pulling off his first backflip because you think that the only true backflip is off of a 15 foot wave in Austrailia or off of a 2 foot wave created by someone in a custom built carbon hull with a 1000+cc motor that costs over $40k.

besides, flat water back flips are lame. how much air do you get? 1'?

surf is where it's at!

 

[Matt_E]

You might feel cooler about yourself if you do what everyone is calling a "flatwater backflip" but 99% of the population won't know the difference between you pulling a backflip off your own wake or a monster boats wake. Heck all of my friends that don't jetski are impressed if they see someone barely nose a ski in and not even ride out. A backflip is a backflip... Are you going to call all the surf riders cheaters now too because they use a wave? Do you think the crowd at a moto-x game cares if the guys flip off a huge custom built ramp instead of a natural dirt bank?

The trick requires some skill, bravery, and some form of a wake...don't take the glory away from someone who's excited for pulling off his first backflip because you think that the only true backflip is off of a 15 foot wave in Austrailia or off of a 2 foot wave created by someone in a custom built carbon hull with a 1000+cc motor that costs over $40k.

x100.

(However, true fw backflips really help you nail down technique!)

 

[Jr Freestyle]

besides, flat water back flips are lame. how much air do you get? 1'?

surf is where it's at!

Just curious have you ever done a bf ?