Custom/Hybrid what's with all the new hullbuilder hate?

[Sanoman]

Kudos McDog! Needed to be said.The thin line is RESPECT. Having enough self esteem to respect another enough not to cross over the line and be a dic.

 

[Sanoman]

I wouldn't say that hull was bad, that's one of the ones I would say needed the most detail, but COULD be built into a decent hull. It could've been worse. But, I've only seen one and that's waternuts. Which is probably the best one.

No the stunt was junk plain and simple.Waternut made his into something because of his engineering skills.Mine took 6 months to put together and a body man 2 weeks to work the body.And he could have spent more time on it.Don't mean to dis you,just my 2 cents.

 

[ProSouth]

no offense taken. like i said, waternuts was the only one i've seen. and when i met him the hull was done. i scrolled through his thread, and was just looking at the pretty pictures lol. i have no idea what he put into that hull, but i wasnt going to bash on the hulls because his is the only one i've seen. it was an opinion based on my little knowledge of it.

 

[Idok]

the internet has ruined societys manners


but I am getting a kick out of the british dudes slamming each other...haha Silly man!

 

[McDog]

True. The stunt was junk as delivered. Those molds were junk. I bought and built one too. If anyone should have a skeptical chip on their shoulder because of the stunt hull I am one of them. Yet I am willing to give builders a chance to show what they can do. All the new hulls out now are better quality than the stunt was.

 

[McDog]

The silly man comment and offense taken was pretty funny. I'll give you that.

 

[imabadfish]

Another thing is that there is a wide age range of folks in this sport. 16 - til your knees and back go out at 78... You got guys in here who have been riding together and supporting each other's companies for the past 20 years and are set in their ways... Their supporters are naturally going to be asking tough questions to newbie builders and younger guys starting their own companies to put them on the spot. Especially if they are producing copy cat parts.


I ride with some guys that have been around a while that dont post on here anymore but they still talk about certain members and say to me hit up "x" or "y" for advice... I have heard or read so many rumors/issues/experiences about nearly every company I can understand how its hard to make an informed decision on any motor builder or parts supplier let alone a hull.


I hate to even post questions regarding rumors/hatred towards any companies that I have heard because I don't want to be accused of stirring the pot when all I'm trying to do is get more or the CORRECT information...


For example, I literally live down the street from Paul Lehr and don't use him ***** EDIT REMOVED DIRTY RUMOR ****


Not trying to derail the thread but hull builders aren't the only ones with drama issues.

 

[McDog]

Paul Lehr is a great guy. He was one of the original owners of this site. He is super helpful and knowledgeable and I would let him work on/ build my stuff anytime. I dont know anything about the issues you listed about him.

 

[Matt_E]

Let's not make this a place to list all the dirty rumors please.

 

[McDog]

I'm all out of thanks for the day but I agree with Matt.

 

[stredman]

Bingo

Blackout bingo

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk 2

 

[ridethelip]

I think everyone would love to jump on an am hull and have it take there riding to the next level NOW.Is that realistic?What is important to one rider may not mean squat to someone else.Each hull builder has an idea of what kind of riding their hull is designed for. When am hull builders and or people say this flat water ski is a great surf ski best you ride it and form your own opinion.There was an old tv show called "Then came Bronson" where this guy rides around on his 69 XLH 900 harley sportster trying to discover the meaning of life.Hollywood makes this sportster the perfect bike for hiil climbs or a desert racing of course he always one. Could that happen on the "X" with ski's ? Some pro's will not give an honest opinion as they hold hands with their sponsor and try not to offend.So keyboard cowboys have to do it.Some ski's are crap and some set ups are lame.If you have been riding for awhile you probably know what works for you or what your after. I say good luck finding it at least there is choice.

 

[wydopen]

Paul's motors rip...dont hesitate for a second to have him build you one..i had a ported 61x with a full spec 49 and that thing screamed and lasted forever..


i just think its lame when people are taking deposits for skis that haven't even been pulled from the molds yet...but i guess if people are stupid enough to buy a hull thats never even been ridden yet then why not..

Another thing is that there is a wide age range of folks in this sport. 16 - til your knees and back go out at 78... You got guys in here who have been riding together and supporting each other's companies for the past 20 years and are set in their ways... Their supporters are naturally going to be asking tough questions to newbie builders and younger guys starting their own companies to put them on the spot. Especially if they are producing copy cat parts.


I ride with some guys that have been around a while that dont post on here anymore but they still talk about certain members and say to me hit up "x" or "y" for advice... I have heard or read so many rumors/issues/experiences about nearly every company I can understand how its hard to make an informed decision on any motor builder or parts supplier let alone a hull.


I hate to even post questions regarding rumors/hatred towards any companies that I have heard because I don't want to be accused of stirring the pot when all I'm trying to do is get more or the CORRECT information...


For example, I literally live down the street from Paul Lehr and don't use him because of the whole Lamey debacle plus some other things I have heard about stealing port templates, not properly measuring, NJ, etc... In fact the first time I met him he told me within 15 minutes he was owner of x-h2o.com. Is that true? Is any of this true? I sure would love to have a bad ass engine builder 15 minutes from my house rather than going 3000 miles to Art. (not that he does bad work it just takes forever!)


Not trying to derail the thread but hull builders aren't the only ones with drama issues.

 

[FlightPlanDan]

Sooner than you think, there will be no such thing as a "new" stock hull.... it makes no economic sense for Yamaha, Kawasaki or any other ..... well, I guess there are no others... to continue to manufacture stand-up ski's that need 2-stroke motors.

That is truly a shame.


Makers of hulls and motors will fill the void left by the big names driven out by the small market and environmental concerns and regulations.

Lots of new ideas, good and bad, will be out there. Have been out there.

Unfortunately, without mass production, prices will remain high compared to Yama/Kawi.
This will make the market even smaller.

Jus' da fax!

I believe that the days of mass production are gone.
Even if a hull is invented perfectly for it's application....surf..flat..whatever,
Somebody will give it more rocker or cut it shorter or widen the tray...and a new hull is born.

 

[Pablo]

Paul's motors rip...dont hesitate for a second to have him build you one..i had a ported 61x with a full spec 49 and that thing screamed and lasted forever..


i just think its lame when people are taking deposits for skis that haven't even been pulled from the molds yet...but i guess if people are stupid enough to buy a hull thats never even been ridden yet then why not..

Wyd...that stuff with peeps putting money down on skis that haven't even been tested blows my mind too.

 

[Stblaz08]

Because when you've already spent your hard earned money you've been saving for some time on a hull ...you live and die by it and there's no room for anything better because you already spent your money on the best !!!

 

[Brian_216]

Im going to jump in here and hopefully not screw myself by doing so. When we came out with our hull, it was already "out" and it had a great following from Nicks build in Thailand. We did not design it, we refined a few things, but it was not ours other than the fact that we bought the molds.. Sure we took deposits and built a few for people that never rode one, saw one in person or had any idea who we were or what we were capable of. We also gave them away below cost, it was the only way we saw possible to get a few out there before we had the chance to travel and demo a few. Josh and I pride ourselves on being honest and up front with everyone, and not being negative towards any other company, product or member. We both have taken time to talk to anyone that had questions, take phone calls, answer pms and emails. We are doing what we love, this is fun for us. We still work 40 hour jobs and do this on the side, the way this market changes we cant take a chance like that and go at this full time. Somehow, and I'm not sure how it happened, but somehow we seem to have avoided the drama and hate? ( now that I said that I can feel it coming! ) I saw this thread and really wanted to take the time to post mainly to say thanks for the positive support we have gotten here since we started. That said, as a small bit of advice to and new builders- This forum is 85% of your market, how you present yourself on here is the way you will be seen by the community. Just keep it clean, give respect and you will earn it. Thanks again for the support.

 

[swapmeet]

Im all about being skeptical before i buy. And no doubt some of the fan boys keep crapping in each others threads to keep each other stirred up. But give the builders a chance before you slam them. Maybe they could have waited to annojnce it when it was all finished but they were excited and wanted to show the whole progression as they went along. We could have watched patiently but instead demanded video relentlessly.

I guess all that started putting a bad taste in my mouth when people started slamming hulls when they haven't even tried them. Then is see a well known product company get attacked over some picture of a prototype hull being damaged before they have even announced it for sale. All the drama is getting old.

To me, it's fanboys that are a big part of the problem. Once a buyer owns/ chooses a hull, everything they say about another manufacturer instantly and unfortunately is related to the builder. So if I choose hull A and make a derogatory comment about hull B, someone who is undecided might think 'I don't want to be associated with that guy.' Or 'god that guy who bought hull A is a douche.' Same with aggressive responses from a fan boy when someone criticizes Hull A.

Guilt by association!!! And the builder has zero control over any of it. Literally, these guys are killing the builder they strive to support.

Matt_E's assessment is on point as well.
As he mentioned, the anonymity of the internet affords trolls the ability to judge products they have no intention of buying.

 

[Brian_216]

To me, it's fanboys that are a big part of the problem. Once a buyer owns/ chooses a hull, everything they say about another manufacturer instantly and unfortunately is related to the builder. So if I choose hull A and make a derogatory comment about hull B, someone who is undecided might think 'I don't want to be associated with that guy.' Or 'god that guy who bought hull A is a douche.' Same with aggressive responses from a fan boy when someone criticizes Hull A.

Guilt by association!!! And the builder has zero control over any of it. Literally, these guys are killing the builder they strive to support.

Matt_E's assessment is on point as well.
As he mentioned, the anonymity of the internet affords trolls the ability to judge products they have no intention of buying.

Yes, I saw this recently. I feel bad for the builder in this case. And you are right, they have no control over it. The internet has come a long way, and with it you can be an overnight success and the following day have the world be against you.

 

[deftons56]

Wyd...that stuff with peeps putting money down on skis that haven't even been tested blows my mind too.

I did this a few years back and instantly regretted it. That's why this time around I took some trips to find a hull that I feel will work for my riding style of wanting a flatwater ski that will flip and whatnot but still be able to go out and just ride around the lake and not worry about my ski randomly spitting me off. I feel I have found that ski and I encourage everyone who will be spending hard earned money to save a little more and do the same. Find what fits your style!