When good threads go bad...

[Cannibal]

So this seems to be happening a lot lately. Things go so far on topic, then spiral wildly out of control resulting in the thread being locked. The off topic posts may make some people think twice before posting in the middle of a pissing match information that may be important to the topic at hand. By locking the thread, it's done, whether there is more information to be had or not.

This is a technical information forum. Why do we stop the flow of information?

Why don't off topic posts get deleted instead of letting them continue to ruin perfectly good topics?

Sure, the handlebar topic was already polluted because it was moved Crab's for sale thread (because it got off topic), but the offending parties need to be warned to chill the F out.

Same thing happened by calling out Pete. That could have been handled behind the scenes, not on a PUBLIC forum.

Some of the problem is that some of our "top ranking officials" are also causing some of this problems. If we all followed the example of some of our Moderators, this place would be a mad house. So much for leading by example.

Seems like all you guys started your cycle at the same time and now it's just a big bitch fest. Keep this crap up and nobody is going to want to come here.

Time to start handing out a round of Bitch Slaps...

 

[Matt_E]

By locking the thread, it's done, whether there is more information to be had or not.
This is a technical information forum. Why do we stop the flow of information?

By the time a thread gets locked, all the useful information has been posted. The thread gets locked because insults outweigh any benefit.
Threads that are pissing matches only aren't worth keeping open.

Why don't off topic posts get deleted instead of letting them continue to ruin perfectly good topics?

Because then people will complain about the mod-man sticking it to them and being post-nazis. Ya can't win.

Some of the problem is that some of our "top ranking officials" are also causing some of this problems. If we all followed the example of some of our Moderators, this place would be a mad house. So much for leading by example.

Got a specific example?
Keep in mind that the mods are regular posters, too.
Should mods refrain from being part of discussions?
Should they not post at all?
What do you think they should do?

 

[butti]

use your search button.all usefull info has already been posted,haha

 

[Big Kahuna]

So this seems to be happening a lot lately. Things go so far on topic, then spiral wildly out of control resulting in the thread being locked. The off topic posts may make some people think twice before posting in the middle of a pissing match information that may be important to the topic at hand. By locking the thread, it's done, whether there is more information to be had or not.

This is a technical information forum. Why do we stop the flow of information?

Why don't off topic posts get deleted instead of letting them continue to ruin perfectly good topics?

Sure, the handlebar topic was already polluted because it was moved Crab's for sale thread (because it got off topic), but the offending parties need to be warned to chill the F out.

Same thing happened by calling out Pete. That could have been handled behind the scenes, not on a PUBLIC forum.

Some of the problem is that some of our "top ranking officials" are also causing some of this problems. If we all followed the example of some of our Moderators, this place would be a mad house. So much for leading by example.

Seems like all you guys started your cycle at the same time and now it's just a big bitch fest. Keep this crap up and nobody is going to want to come here.Time to start handing out a round of Bitch Slaps...

Simple, People will bitch, even other moderators will bitch and give you names like Hitler, or ask how your Hitler Mustache is coming. Personally I think there are times it could be warranted. But oh well.


Does anybody remember DJ's post from a long time ago titled RESPECT. Oh wait, it was just a week ago. Lack of Respect is the problem.


Not sure what you mean about Moderators. I am all for good debates when it is constructive and productive. When it gets out of hand and insults start flying is when it gets bad and we have to step in. I will be the first to say I like Drama. It can be fun as long as no harm is being done.

As far as Pete goes, he was not really called out, a suggestion was made and he pulled a flying pancake. Pete is like a little brother to me. But he is his worst enemy. That thread went south because Pete lost his cool.

 

[OCD Solutions]

By the time a thread gets locked, all the useful information has already been twisted beyond recognition. The thread gets locked because we completely lost track of the original topic.
Members that routinely join in pissing matches aren't worth keeping.

There, fixed it. :biggrin:

 

[brett]

its the interwebs people, part of the deal. luckily when we all get together for rides it usually goes smoothly and everyone is respectful...

 

[SUPERJET-113]

When dealing with the same material (like we are, extruded 6061), the bar is going to be stronger than the tube just for the simple fact that there is more material there.

:beerchug:

 

[Matt_E]

There, fixed it. :biggrin:

No argument there. :biggrin:

 

[Cannibal]

I'm not going to give specific examples, but I don't think a mod ought to be throwing fuel on a fire, rather he should be trying to extinguish it.

If a topic gets skewed, the mods should be trying to get it back on topic, if it can't be put back on topic gently, delete the offending posts.

Mods should join the conversation, of course. So as that conversation is about the topic at hand.

Mods have accepted a "job" on the forum and in doing so, their behavior needs to reflect that "job". When a topic, such as the handlebar topic, is going, and then changes into something about fuel and mix blah blah, that's off topic. Obviously that was being discussed somewhere else and should not have been let to "turn" the topic sour.

That topic was moved to General on 8/12 around 9pm (Pac time) and was locked 8/13 around 9am (Pac time). I don't think all of the information that could have been posted on the topic was posted, maybe it was. But if anyone does have something else to say, they can't.

I've read that "RESPECT" thread along with the "About that 101 thread" thread. I know it's the internet, and people talk to others way different than they would if they were talking to them in person. You can be pretty brave hiding behind a keyboard. But those threads show exactly what I'm talking about. All this bitching, no respect, and it keeps occurring over and over again (and by most of the same offenders).

If members that routinely join in pissing matches aren't worth keeping, then why do we do it? There are way more outstanding citizens in this community then there are trouble makers.

I am just trying to offer a suggestion of cleaning up threads instead of locking them. You are probably going to be looked at as Hitler no matter what you do. Locking them seems counter productive. You clean it up and you may get more info, you lock it, and you won't.

 

[Big Kahuna]

I'm not going to give specific examples, but I don't think a mod ought to be throwing fuel on a fire, rather he should be trying to extinguish it.

If a topic gets skewed, the mods should be trying to get it back on topic, if it can't be put back on topic gently, delete the offending posts.

Mods should join the conversation, of course. So as that conversation is about the topic at hand.

Mods have accepted a "job" on the forum and in doing so, their behavior needs to reflect that "job". When a topic, such as the handlebar topic, is going, and then changes into something about fuel and mix blah blah, that's off topic. Obviously that was being discussed somewhere else and should not have been let to "turn" the topic sour.

That topic was moved to General on 8/12 around 9pm (Pac time) and was locked 8/13 around 9am (Pac time). I don't think all of the information that could have been posted on the topic was posted, maybe it was. But if anyone does have something else to say, they can't.

I've read that "RESPECT" thread along with the "About that 101 thread" thread. I know it's the internet, and people talk to others way different than they would if they were talking to them in person. You can be pretty brave hiding behind a keyboard. But those threads show exactly what I'm talking about. All this bitching, no respect, and it keeps occurring over and over again (and by most of the same offenders).

If members that routinely join in pissing matches aren't worth keeping, then why do we do it? There are way more outstanding citizens in this community then there are trouble makers.

I am just trying to offer a suggestion of cleaning up threads instead of locking them. You are probably going to be looked at as Hitler no matter what you do. Locking them seems counter productive. You clean it up and you may get more info, you lock it, and you won't.

Many times if I lock something, I offer up that people are free to start a new thread as long as it stays constructive. Sometimes that is the only way to stop the train wreck, I will use one member as an example, if you delete one of his post, he will just keep coming back and repeating it. If you lock it, then he cannot come back. Starting a new thread sometimes deters them, some of the fun is lost because the content that was fueling the fire is no longer there.


Your overall thoughts and observatins is good.

 

[SuziQ]

Considering the “moderators” on this site are (assumed) not formally trained or accredited in mediation skills, more times than not, most of them do an exceptional job (especially considering what they have to work with). Neither should they be exempt from question or critiquing (quite the contrary), and they should not only hear, but listen, and then act accordingly.

A problem was brought forth with the “Respect” thread mentioned (conduct of the site members, as well as the participating moderators), and it should be addressed for resolution, benefiting all individuals/corporations participating within this network, as well as those individuals/corporations yet to join, or those whom have decided to recluse themselves over the years.

I personally have never met too many mediators who could participate in a discussion or debate, while mediating it at the same time; that’s a tough role to follow due to human nature. One must remain neutral at all times to be effective (and perceived as effective). As Chris stated in a thread not long ago… just because someone likes something, does not mean it is good for them (ie> moderators participating in drama). A mere suggestion would be that moderation could be more beneficial under one screen name, and participation could take place under another, with a strict rule that you can not use dual screen names within one thread.

Perhaps this is a good read: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mediation

 

[Matt_E]

A mere suggestion would be that moderation could be more beneficial under one screen name, and participation could take place under another, with a strict rule that you can not use dual screen names within one thread.

I've thought about this same thing before.
Have admin_x, moderator_y names for the mods, and those individuals post under their regular names.
I think it would make the site administration completely impersonal.
Besides, everyone knows who the mods are.

 

[tom21]

cannibal-kicking people off a site is a slippery slope. where to draw the line?

just tell me one thing...where on this planet does anyone live peacefully with their neighbor? there is always friction at some point and always will be.:chairfall:

 

[Cannibal]

A mere suggestion would be that moderation could be more beneficial under one screen name, and participation could take place under another, with a strict rule that you can not use dual screen names within one thread.

I actually think that is an excellent suggestion. I've seen this same thing work on other forums. All moderators have the same login. This way, the moderation is done under anonymity, and people can be put in their place without being labeled. Problem is, many of the moderators here have different access.

I'd say that it would not be a big deal to use both screen names in one thread, such as where A and B (moderator) are having an on-topic conversation, C throws a left hook and takes the topic off subject, B can log on as "X Moderator" and take care of C as need be.

However, yes, you would need to make sure that if A and B were already off topic, that B does not log in as a moderator and put A in his place.

This is not a moderator bashing thread, so don't take it as that. I just think that maybe there are better options. If the same person reposts the same thing you just deleted, he gets a warning. If he continues, he needs a 24hr cool off account freeze.

I don't consider a locked thread a punishment to the person misbehaving, it's a punishment to the other 99% of us who are trying to get the most of this site. Unfortunately it's the same way in society, punish the majority for the wrong-doings of the minority.

 

[Cannibal]

I post to slow you, guys beat me...

I've thought about this same thing before.
Have admin_x, moderator_y names for the mods, and those individuals post under their regular names.
I think it would make the site administration completely impersonal.
Besides, everyone knows who the mods are.

To me it does not matter who the moderators are, if you all have the same name, then we won't be able to tell you apart.

cannibal-kicking people off a site is a slippery slope. where to draw the line?

just tell me one thing...where on this planet does anyone live peacefully with their neighbor? there is always friction at some point and always will be.:chairfall:

3 strikes you're out??? I don't know. 24hr cool off periods? If there is no punishment, there will be no end...

Expecting everyone to get along on the internet is ridiculous. But again, the minority makes the majority suffer. Do you suggest we do nothing?

 

[Matt_E]

We already sort of have "3 strikes you're out".
The infraction system auto-bans people when they get a certain number of infractions in a given time period.
Cannibal, there is no problem with you bringing this stuff up. The site is for its members, so the members have a right to contribute input.

This moderation issue keeps coming up every couple of months, and it swings both directions. Last time it came up, members expressed that we moderated too much. We decided to let things go more unmoderated for a while and see where it leads.
Now the wind is blowing the other way, it seems.

 

[Big Kahuna]

hey Matt, I can think of 2 who should get some of those special infraction parties.

 

[SuziQ]

Another idea is that it could have the potential for giving you mods a break here and there (which is highly necessary), or even more of you. I personally know of an online individual whom would make an excellent mod due to background/proper training/disposition (not myself, for I would ban almost everyone just for kicks, jk). That person may step forward if anonymity could be guaranteed (and there are probably others who could prove the proper training/background or correct disposition as well

 

[SuperJETT]

Suzi, you are reading way way too deep into this, seriously.

 

[Matt_E]

Don't need mediation skills. All we needs is a banstick.