Custom/Hybrid When will there be a hull everyone can afford?

[Kawastyler]

I may take you up on that if you wouldnt mind laying up a small section of the pump area for me.

Anyone care to talk lamination schedules and general hull construction?

Im toying with ideas for construction and came up with this for a carbon version keeping in mind strength and weight.

Layer one at 0 degrees 6k 8.9oz 2x2 twill carbon at a thickness of .011
Layer two at 45 degrees 6k 8.9oz 2x2 twill carbon at a thickness of .011
Layer three at 90 degrees 6k 8.9oz 2x2 twill carbon at a thickness of .011

Pull vacuum and let cure.

After cured, wipe and lightly scuff.

Layer 4 2mm Nomex Honeycomb throughout bottom deck and high stress areas

Layer 5 at 45 degrees 6k 8.9oz 2x2 twill carbon at a thickness of .011

Layer 6 at 0 degrees 6k 8.9oz 2x2 twill carbon at a thickness of .011

Total thickness of .134"

I think on the glass version it will use 2mm core mat to gain the desired thickness and strength.

The reasoning behind the second vacuum setup to sandwich the Nomex core is to not saturate the honeycomb and add excess resin and weight. I feel like this is a good start but others may disagree. I will be making lots of ride plates before we get ready to lay up a hull. That will give plenty of time to experiment with different layups and see what does and doesn't work. Feel free to add opinions and experience.

3 layers off 8.9oz is much to thinn.....with sandwich build its enought for riding but not enought for putting on trailer, touch a ston andso on. Worked many years with honeycomp and i can say: its a nightmare!!!

Lay some layers more and use pvc-foam on sides and middle flat area of bottom. You have to make 1 vacuum and 4times in case of using honeycomp!!!

I build many hulls,carboncarbodypart......in carbonsandwich and it is funny for me to look somebody like to try build it for the half of the price of all other builders)))))


Good luck,Andy

 

[Kawastyler]

Since last year i use vacuuminfusion with pvc- foam for me hulls with best results)))

 

[harris414]

3 layers off 8.9oz is much to thinn.....with sandwich build its enought for riding but not enought for putting on trailer, touch a ston andso on. Worked many years with honeycomp and i can say: its a nightmare!!!

Lay some layers more and use pvc-foam on sides and middle flat area of bottom. You have to make 1 vacuum and 4times in case of using honeycomp!!!

I build many hulls,carbodypart......in carbonsandwich an it is funny for me to look somebody like to try it for then the price of all others)))))


Good luck,Andy

X2

I have asked the same thing to an aerospace composite guy that uses lots of honycomb and he said not to and to
use something like pvc foam, he called it something but i cant remember...
He also has me using visual carbon only on the first layer if its going to be seen and then i use a biax carbon 45*/-45* to build my strength... If i want thickness then he said add the pvc foam

props on that sxr in your post, I love the green and visual carbon!!!

 

[Kawastyler]

I have asked the same thing to an aerospace composite guy that uses lots of honycomb and he said not to and to
use something like pvc foam, he called it something but i cant remember...
He also has me using visual carbon only on the first layer if its going to be seen and then i use a biax carbon 45*/-45* to build my strength... If i want thickness then he said add the pvc foam

props on that sxr in your post, I love the green and visual carbon!!![/QUOTE]


Airex is the name in Germany 75kg/m3

 

[Kawastyler]

X2



props on that sxr in your post, I love the green and visual carbon!!!

1.98m SXR......;-))))

 

[WFO Speedracer]

I use the expanded pvc foam on most of my projects , it is thermoformable at about 150 degrees Fahrenheit and when encased in glass or carbon fiber is strong as death and lightweight, I have repaired many a Yamaha rub rail lip on Waveventures, Waverunner XL's using this stuff. A couple of trade names for it are SINTRA board and Ecofoam.

 

[Daralekt]

divinycell

 

[Waternut]

The majority of my honeycomb experience has been in aerospace applications. Both in commercial applications not really designed to exceed 2-3G's normally and in the military fighters which often see's 7-9G's....and they ALL have water in the honeycomb which gets checked by x-ray and then must be removed before it trashes the honeycomb. Most aerospace honeycomb is bonded to the structure using a structural foam to help give it an increased surface area to adhere to the boron, fiberglass, or carbon plies. The biggest advantage for aerospace over us is that planes see gradual (think relatively) increases in loads. Jetski's see massive impacts and the worst thing for core materials are impacts. The floorboards in commercial planes see delaminations all the time just from people walking on them and those are roughly 1/2" flat panels with lots of reinforcements underneath them.

I'm not here to say use this and don't use that... Feel free to use whatever you want. If it were my money though, I wouldn't buy a Rickter, Superfreak, XFT, or any other proven hull for half the price if it had pvc foam or honeycomb in it. That's just me though. Yes both will work, but how long they work and how difficult they are to repair when they do fail is why I turn my back on both.

 

[Brian_216]

Nick used the coremat that looks like a car cover. 2mm thick and lots of holes in it. I found some on line and they call it polyester bulking mat. If it saturates with the layup and adds thickness and strength it seems like a pretty safe way to go. I will be building the first hull for me anyhow. So I will get to see how it holds up. The first thing I need to overcome is making my kawi style pump work since I just paid maxx a fortune for it I can't see switching out to another pump before I even got to use it.

 

[Waternut]

US composites sells coremat pretty cheap. http://www.uscomposites.com/specialty.html

I thought long and hard about using it in place of one of the layers of 20oz carbon on the bottom deck. I even did the math... When 2mm coremat and 20oz carbon are saturated properly, they weigh roughly 2.5lbs per square yard but the coremat is 3 times as thick. I'll find out real soon if I chose poorly or not.

 

[harris414]

I plan on sticking with nothing but carbon layers and using more layers in key spots done a certain way
to build the strength and thickness i think it needs. Once i put the hull under tests i can see what issues
I have and address them then instead of pre assuming them and doing something i dont need... Then come's the PVC Foam! That sends us back
to the testing as mentioned prior...

 

[Daralekt]

Nick used the coremat that looks like a car cover. 2mm thick and lots of holes in it. I found some on line and they call it polyester bulking mat. If it saturates with the layup and adds thickness and strength it seems like a pretty safe way to go. I will be building the first hull for me anyhow. So I will get to see how it holds up. The first thing I need to overcome is making my kawi style pump work since I just paid maxx a fortune for it I can't see switching out to another pump before I even got to use it.

Coremat is a poor choice of you are looking for any decent strength to weight ratio.

 

[Crab]

will there ever be an entry level hull that everyone can afford to get into?

I hope not, need to keep the expensive ski values up.

 

[Kawastyler]

Coremat is a poor choice of you are looking for any decent strength to weight ratio.

Coremat is good for static strength an not useble for dynamic strength!!!!

 

[Waternut]

Coremat is good for static strength an not useble for dynamic strength!!!!

True but by spacing out the plies it creates two load paths around the core which increases your static strength. I didn't care to do the math on this but the core may raise your static stress high enough that dynamic stress isn't an issue so it's not worthless just because it doesn't raise dynamic. As one side see's tension loads, the other sees compression. You're also creating a box which is less likely to bend. When just carbon/glass plies are squashed together, you get more bending and shear and your tension/compression loads aren't as pronounced. Don't get my wrong, I chose to skip the coremat and only do carbon. I just figured this may help those thinking about coremat to make a more educated decision....or it'll confuse them even more. lol :biggthumpup:

 

[ajmps1]

so why cant you just make a cheap hull from scratch??lol

 

[Brian_216]

so why cant you just make a cheap hull from scratch??lol

Yea right! The r&d, making a plug, making decent molds from it just to get to where I'm getting in this project is tons of man hours and materials. That's why I jumped at the chance to buy these molds. Even if I end up spending another 2 grand to ship them it's worth it.

 

[Matt_E]

Huh. According to some, designing a good freestyle hull takes 30 minutes and there's no reason good quality hulls should cost more than a couple grand at most.

 

[AtomicPunk]

Q. When will there be a hull everyone can afford?

Maybe everyone is not meant to afford an AM hull? At least until Obama passes that "universal freeride" law.:Banane09:


Affordable hull = 3-4 years old and has had a couple owners... that is probably how I will get mine.

 

[Matt_E]

Some people confuse "affordable" with "just cheap enough so that MY income level can buy it"

In other words, "affordable" depends on what you make and/or choose to spend on this hobby.