900cc vs 1100cc +

[masterblaster]

The SS865 is a good bit better with Tl,but a long stretch from a small bore 10 mill. Really fun combo setup

Having a buncha moto toys is fun for a lil while or longer if you wana be a garage monkey,but you sound like you have a perfect understanding of what im talking about with maintiaining them all. Sure its easy to have 200 skis if most are sitting round a bone yard and not running,Now if you have to keep most of them running well, thats a totally diff story

 

[BruceSki]

I'll add some fuel to the fire here.

Do you know how many guys I've seen at freerides on 10-20,000 boat setups with aftermarket hulls, huge motors, big pumps etc. That can barely ride?

I've had guys come up to me after flipping a crusty square off three footers with a 701 crying cause their race gas, big bore, stroker, 250lb boat won't flip. You can't buy skill. It takes years of broken parts and trying stuff you can't achieve just yet, over and over and over til you nail it.

 

[masterblaster]

no doubt a ton of guys have more cc than they need for a combo boat..not to mention some other facts...
wallet>bragging right>skills

 

[kevbo]

There have been some really impressive results coming from 900 cc motors recently,what would most prefer?a 900 with 10 mill or smaller crank? Many diff opinions on this, case strength,square cc to stroke,piston weight,rev speed,flow room for transfers.life of bearings,maintenance intervals,among others,IF a 900 was out there that made the bigger cc power,but was not 1/3 more $ would a 1100 or 1200 be desirable to very many?

A long stroke 900 is almost as expensive as a 1100 to produce. People want the most for their money. For taming a full power 1100 try backing off ignition timing and install a smaller pump nozzle. This will lower heat and rpm for improved engine life while smoothing out the power delivery for surf.

 

[masterblaster]

that would work as well if you already have a 1100 but having to remove a reduction nozzle and swap is more than most will want to do for a swap to flat to surf.Remove the power from the pipe with a small water change in 1 min and remove most the heat from the motor as well when its not running on the pipes full power bamd.. Smaller lighter pistons have alot less weight pulling on the wrist pin bearings and crank bearings as well. Its a battle of CC to extra transfer flow.

 

[kevbo]

that would work as well if you already have a 1100 but having to remove a reduction nozzle and swap is more than most will want to do for a swap to flat to surf.Remove the power from the pipe with a small water change in 1 min and remove most the heat from the motor as well when its not running on the pipes full power bamd.. Smaller lighter pistons have alot less weight pulling on the wrist pin bearings and crank bearings as well. Its a battle of CC to extra transfer flow.

Killing the pipe with more water is probably enough. I think a really hot 1100 would need a bit more detuning, especially a race gas setup. It depends on the hull/rider. I have always found a smaller nozzle to soften the hit but so does later timing and killing the pipe. As far as engine design, an 85mm bore is technically better in many aspects. It just cant deliver the goods as well as 95mm bores do in this particular application.

 

[masterblaster]

What is made up in flow in modern 900s is very surprising in the 62t platform. Cc is only one aspect. Maintenance and duration for a non competition combo build come into equation as well

 

[Lm12]

What is made up in flow in modern 900s is very surprising in the 62t platform. Cc is only one aspect. Maintenance and duration for a non competition combo build come into equation as well

Ive been reading your post for a while. Im curious as to what your engine/motor background is?

 

[masterblaster]

does that not sound fair to say? no world titles here,but the 900rr sure does seem to be a beast among giants

 

[Lm12]

Im not agreeing or disagreeing. Im just curious as to your background. Ive noticed that your also in Virginia or close to it. Im currently running an xscream 1200 but have been weighing my options on a second ski and motor.

 

[masterblaster]

I see your from richmond. Ive been motor head forever,Cars,motox,skis. obtaining the best power for the money with reasonable maintenance is what im into. I dont need the fastest or biggest,just what makes the most sense. for alot of guys a combo build is just that.

 

[j0hnny]

I see your from richmond. Ive been motor head forever,Cars,motox,skis. obtaining the best power for the money with reasonable maintenance is what im into. I dont need the fastest or biggest,just what makes the most sense. for alot of guys a combo build is just that.

i wish someone would have told me this years ago.... i learned the hard way building a 100% full tilt engine that then required poop tons of maint.

 

[Lm12]

I see your from richmond. Ive been motor head forever,Cars,motox,skis. obtaining the best power for the money with reasonable maintenance is what im into. I dont need the fastest or biggest,just what makes the most sense. for alot of guys a combo build is just that.

Do you build motors or are you a theorist?

 

[masterblaster]

considering your exposure ill pm u further inquires to avoid derailment and subsequent clock work thread lockdown lol

 

[Big Kahuna]

This is getting old.......... dont care who started what. This crap is going to stop.

 

[scottie mac]

LOL^^^^ never knew you were going to spend more time baby sitting on here than you do at home with your daughter......... You get paid for this..... righhhhhhhhhhhhhht???

SM

 

[WILKEY]

I read threw this am... smfh

 

[scottie mac]

If I was someone looking for a motor in the 900cc range and was happy with not going huge - 1100cc plus - I would go with the TPE 964. Price is right. Power is VERY nice for a motor of it's size. Uses stock crank. Makes power for whatever you want to use it for - surf, flat, joy riding. And, best of all, it can be tuned for whatever powerband you are looking for with simple changes to timing, pipe, water. Not to mention, Erik is a smart guy who knows what he is doing as opposed to the normal smack talk by so many of the people on this forum who don't know their a$$ from their elbow when it comes to designing, building or tuning a ski. Talk is cheap, opinions are everywhere. I've seen Phil Clemmons flat water backflip a chan with 964 and a 144mm pump with ease. And, there are plenty of surf rats out there who have torture tested them as well. Just seems logical to me. That is, unless you just don't like or have an agenda with Erik. Can't please everyone, thats for sure. That is why I tell Erik all the time to focus on building motors and his company and let the products and clients speak for themselves. When guys like Judge and Phil look at the product and sign off on it, that works for me.

Scottie

 

[masterblaster]

Surprised to see the trash thrown out and thread on topic still..Cant make everyone happy all the time,but depending on if you stand up to your word and deliver a nice product in timely manner you certainly can keep more people happy than not with far less agenda.
The 964 is nice,I tested mine with a few setups,the concept is great, along with the 900rr,just priced outa mosts budget.Still far more impressed with 10 mill small bores with less cc. Its a price driven market, Always room for improvement as tech advances.Now that people outside our sport are coming in with great cross over tech being used in these type setups will be very interesting to see where ski motors end up in a few more years. things change fast, it wasnt that long ago some mentioned were trying to fig out how to simply clone a old dasa cast cylinder,now look where its all at in just a few years.. judge on the other hand has been around a long time with some true personal innovations from way back, Those case porting specs and shapes he devised are still successfully used in a few new school motors as well...props to a originator with dyno data...
Economy is really rebounding now,Dow is back on top over 17. More cars sold this yr than even back in 03,Few more years and expendable money will be all over the place again,with the amount of new riders coming into the market in multiple countries a real mass market motor based on volume sales pricing could be a game changer

 

[fastgtfairlane]

Do you know how many guys I've seen at freerides on 10-20,000 boat setups with aftermarket hulls, huge motors, big pumps etc. That can barely ride?

exactly what i was thinking.. the illusion of needing all of that 1100cc power to backflip to make up for lack of skill shows more money than sense.. hell the gomer just backfilpped a ski with exactly half those cc's in the surf.. whats the point of all that power if you cant even at very least, nose stab your ski?